Need Help... CV/axle question

[SilverBullet75]

Here is the NAPA replacement axle.
This is the part that is "identical" from left to right:
http://ppl.ug/qR4uY0Yc2kQ/

These are the green cups that the bare CV portion of the above axles go into:
http://ppl.ug/TrAWAsX9mVc/
http://ppl.ug/kIf9EE7UgFE/

The green cups have, on one side, a long shaft (the part that is hard to find/buy) attached to it. On the other side, is a green cup that has the short shaft attached to it (available at stores).
Both of these shafts are located inside the differential.

Hope this helps...
---JIM---

[89Vette]

Here is the NAPA replacement axle.
This is the part that is "identical" from left to right:
http://ppl.ug/qR4uY0Yc2kQ/

These are the green cups that the bare CV portion of the above axles go into:
http://ppl.ug/TrAWAsX9mVc/
http://ppl.ug/kIf9EE7UgFE/

The green cups have, on one side, a long shaft (the part that is hard to find/buy) attached to it. On the other side, is a green cup that has the short shaft attached to it (available at stores).
Both of these shafts are located inside the differential.

Hope this helps...
---JIM---

Oh! So, the green cup isn't part of the CV halfshaft! It's the "receiver" where you slide the CV axle into!?!?!

Somehow, I was picturing the inner green cup as being ON the CV axle. I thought it must be the inner "bulge" on the CV unit. IOW, I kinda thought you were talking about the non-accordian inner rubber sleeve/protector that's held on by bands.

Cup sounded more like rubber than metal.

Now that I understand that, I assume the CV axle simply slides in the cup -- which sits at the outer end of the axle housing. How often do people worry about pulling the outer axle bearing for replacement or service?

[Ldub]

Oh! So, the green cup isn't part of the CV halfshaft! It's the "receiver" where you slide the CV axle into!?!?!

Yup...

Somehow, I was picturing the inner green cup as being ON the CV axle. I thought it must be the inner "bulge" on the CV unit. IOW, I kinda thought you were talking about the non-accordian inner rubber sleeve/protector that's held on by bands.

Cup sounded more like rubber than metal.

Now that I understand that, I assume the CV axle simply slides in the cup -- which sits at the outer end of the axle housing.

Yup...

How often do people worry about pulling the outer axle bearing for replacement or service?

Which one?

The one's in the center section, (inboard of the green cup) are lubed by the gear lube in the c-section.

The outers on the end of the half shafts, are greased & sealed about the same as any other front wheel bearing... (every 30,000 mi)

The main difference being the drive flanges, etc, pertaining to the 4wd aspect of the front axle. (as shown in the link Jonnie posted)

There's a service interval chart around here somewhere...

http://www.vehicross.info/modules.ph...warticle&id=26

[tom4bren]

Oh! So, the green cup isn't part of the CV halfshaft! It's the "receiver" where you slide the CV axle into!?!?!

Somehow, I was picturing the inner green cup as being ON the CV axle. I thought it must be the inner "bulge" on the CV unit. IOW, I kinda thought you were talking about the non-accordian inner rubber sleeve/protector that's held on by bands.

Cup sounded more like rubber than metal.

Now that I understand that, I assume the CV axle simply slides in the cup -- which sits at the outer end of the axle housing. How often do people worry about pulling the outer axle bearing for replacement or service?

Not to split hairs ... but ... it's what I do.

The green cup is part of the Constant Velocity (CV) Joint. A CV joint is in reality a bearing on steroids & the green cup is the outer race.

Part of the problem with talking about CVs & half shafts is that there is so much mis-use of terminology and slang terms that it all gets very confusing.

There was a thread a couple of years ago called "CVs for dummies" that had a drawing & the correct terminology. Also, last time I checked, wikipedia had a pretty cool animated graphic of a CV joint.

I've been told that the term "half shaft" really means the entire assembly (from splined shaft entering 3rd member to splined shaft entering hub). More commonly, the half shaft seems to mean what the pros call the "center shaft" which is the solid shaft between the two green cups and includes the "star" (inner race), Ball Bearings, & Cage.

[89Vette]

Not to split hairs ... but ... it's what I do.

The green cup is part of the Constant Velocity (CV) Joint. A CV joint is in reality a bearing on steroids & the green cup is the outer race.

Part of the problem with talking about CVs & half shafts is that there is so much mis-use of terminology and slang terms that it all gets very confusing.

There was a thread a couple of years ago called "CVs for dummies" that had a drawing & the correct terminology. Also, last time I checked, wikipedia had a pretty cool animated graphic of a CV joint.

I've been told that the term "half shaft" really means the entire assembly (from splined shaft entering 3rd member to splined shaft entering hub). More commonly, the half shaft seems to mean what the pros call the "center shaft" which is the solid shaft between the two green cups and includes the "star" (inner race), Ball Bearings, & Cage.

From one hair-splitter to another, thanks!

When I looked at the picture of the NAPA CV axle, it took a second, harder look to notice it didn't have the green cup and inner 3rd piece. When you look at pics on the net -- especially EMPIs at Amazon, the implication is the inner green cup and axle are included.

I went back and looked at the pics of the two CV boot swap instruction threads and finally realized that inner, green CV "cup" isn't being purchased with these CV axles. I also realized you can't tell if Amazon (or other vendors would include that or not. I assume not. Since Amazon has two options, I can't really tell what they sell (IOW, what parts of the CV axle would be present).

The CV boot swap threads also don't address pulling the outboard end from the wheel/suspension. Maybe I've yet to find the correct r/r procedure on this forum. The one just bumped to the top of VXTalk is nice for identifying the parts.

[tom4bren]

Vette,

Correct, IIRC the Mechatech install instructions do not describe removing the splined shaft from the hub assembly. For those instructions, go to the How2 section and get Kenny's bearing repack write-up.

http://www.vehicross.info/modules.ph...warticle&id=59

Also consider that all of the vendors that we've talked to seem to only supply the tripod version (3 ball bearing). Rumor has it that it'll fit into our 6 ball bearing cup. My concern for this swap would be strength and binding at full articulation ... but members say that they work just fine.

Tom

[SilverBullet75]

I've done a lot of searching and haven't found any info on how to remove the shafts/cups from the differential. Anyone have any instructions/tips/pics?

[tom4bren]

Here ya go:

http://www.vehicross.info/modules.ph...warticle&id=49

[89Vette]

Vette,

Correct, IIRC the Mechatech install instructions do not describe removing the splined shaft from the hub assembly. For those instructions, go to the How2 section and get Kenny's bearing repack write-up.

http://www.vehicross.info/modules.ph...warticle&id=59

Also consider that all of the vendors that we've talked to seem to only supply the tripod version (3 ball bearing). Rumor has it that it'll fit into our 6 ball bearing cup. My concern for this swap would be strength and binding at full articulation ... but members say that they work just fine.

Tom

The NAPA unit pictured by SilverBullit shows at least 3 ball bearings in view. I'd assume the other 3 are present on the backside of the pic. Am I misunderstanding your point?

OK. I looked at the bearing repack procedure. Once the hub is pulled, I assume you're telling me the CV "halfshaft" free to come out?

[SilverBullet75]

The NAPA unit pictured by SilverBullit shows at least 3 ball bearings in view. I'd assume the other 3 are present on the backside of the pic.

That is correct. 6 balls on NAPA CVs.

[VXorado]

Also consider that all of the vendors that we've talked to seem to only supply the tripod version (3 ball bearing). Rumor has it that it'll fit into our 6 ball bearing cup. My concern for this swap would be strength and binding at full articulation ... but members say that they work just fine.

Tom

Been there... failed trying that.

The aftermarket tripod style CV does not fit our green CV cup. You will get tripods if you order the half shaft + jack shaft (inner shaft) together. Since the tripods are much beefier than our six ball bearing rzeppa CV, I thought it would be a nice upgrade for strength. I was able to purchase both tripod jack shaft from EMPI (you cannot buy rzeppa aftermarket) along with two half shafts. I found that the tripods would bind at IFS droop which made the ride harsh, clunky, & truthfully made the VX worse. The project was a big waste of time and money.

Since I can't buy the rzeppa cup jack shaft aftermarket, I have a backup set of jack shafts from a VX. I suggest that anyone who's lifted & goes wheeling do the same. You can get rzeppa jack shafts from most ISUZUs: Trooper, SLX, Rodeo, Amigo, passport, & VX

[89Vette]

If I understand the design correctly, the CV axles drive the front wheels thru those bearing-to-groove slots in the joints. IOW, they act just like a gear, interlocking to move the axle.

While I understand how the design allows for 360-degree articulation of the wheel, there's one thing I'm not sure of....

In my past experience with a failing CV joint, I know exactly what a popping joint sounds like during a turn. I know how to tell when a FWD unit sounds when it's failing. My question is whether it's the same for 4WD.

Is it possible for failing CV joints/axles to make noise similar to a wheel bearing noise WITHOUT having the classic popping sounds while turning?

I notice some mild vibration around 55mph. In a thread about 1yr ago, I proposed it might be engine noise. But, I've yet to confirm that. Many talk about the noisy hwy performance of the VX, but I'm still not willing to give up on any possibility.

Any opinions on the possibility of CV joints making noise running in a straight line?

[89Vette]

Here is the NAPA replacement axle.
This is the part that is "identical" from left to right:
http://ppl.ug/qR4uY0Yc2kQ/

These are the green cups that the bare CV portion of the above axles go into:
http://ppl.ug/TrAWAsX9mVc/
http://ppl.ug/kIf9EE7UgFE/

The green cups have, on one side, a long shaft (the part that is hard to find/buy) attached to it. On the other side, is a green cup that has the short shaft attached to it (available at stores).
Both of these shafts are located inside the differential.

Hope this helps...
---JIM---

I guess popoplug (ppl) isn't a good a site as photobucket? The pics are gone from these links...Expired or Storage filled up?

[SilverBullet75]

No, Pogoplug is great. I took the pics down a while ago.

Note: after months of having the Napa shafts on, I don't recommend them unless your cups are replaced as well.
Bad vibration since day 1.

[89Vette]

No, Pogoplug is great. I took the pics down a while ago.

Note: after months of having the Napa shafts on, I don't recommend them unless your cups are replaced as well.
Bad vibration since day 1.

That's too bad. NAPA said they use A1 Cardone's. I guess EMPI's really are better? I'm guessing the green cup end didn't fit tight or something? Otherwise, it doesn't seem like they'd cause vibration.... Hmmm....

BTW...I thought that picture of the halfshaft was the key to my understanding in that thread. I always think it's unfortunate to kill picture links.