Wow, ISIS hostage is from Prescott! Praying for Kayla!

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Wow, was so shocked to hear this week that the female hostage held by
ISIS is actually from right here where I live (Prescott area). They really succeeded at keeping it quiet!

I went to the Prescott Courthouse center square yesterday to show support for Kayla.
There where several national news crews filming segments.

We're all praying for a miracle that she's not dead and she comes home soon, as well as all their hostages! Such a terrible situation :noo:
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Parents have confirmed she's dead......my town is devastated.....
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Very sad. I don't have much faith that those animals will release any of their hostages.

Sue,

I just saw that news this morning. Very sad. Our thoughts & prayers go out to her family and community.

Tom

Here's a link to a letter she wrote from captivity. It gives a glimpse into just what kind of a person she was. RIP

Kayla Mueller

Praying for the family.

Just so sad...:(

Evil and hate in the name of religion (any religion) is wrong. When an alleged follower of Judaism, Christianity, or Islam takes up arms they are breaking the commandment "thou shall not kill". There is no asterisk next to this with exceptions. Anyone that claims to follow one of these religions, and yet has hate in their heart enough to want to kill others (or better yet have someone ELSE do the killing) for ANY reason, is at least a hypocrite and not a true follower of that god's commandments... At worst? They are part of the problem, and part of the wickedness in the world today.

Do you hate and wish people dead simply because they are different from you in some way? Do you refuse to live and let live? Have you personally committed an act/acts of evil against good, peaceful people? Have you funded/supported those that commit said acts? You are NOT a "religious" person. You are not even a GOOD person.

Reality check...

RIP Kayla.

Noc, while I don't claim to know the mind of God, I think there might be exceptions. For instance, if someone breaks into my house and attempts to harm my family? I'd make an "exception" out of him. An example, too. And I'd be happy to chat about it with St. Peter when the time comes.

Extrapolate this to a macro level, with the planet being the house, and members of my faith being my family, if one "religion" can not peacefully coexist with my family and attempts to exterminate them wholesale? Murdering teens for watching a soccer match on TV? Crucifying men in town square (in 2014, not 33AD!) for what deity they worship? Stoning a female rape victim to death because she was "with" someone other than her husband? Gotta be exceptions to allow for curing these ills.

-V

I feel for all those that have needlessly died because of the actions of evil, sick, twisted, cruel, hateful people. I agree that people should protect themselves and those they care about from those that would do them harm. On a global scale, the good people should defend against evil... no question. My point is not that it is unacceptable ok to do so, but rather that people need to be honest about it. You can not claim to be a religious person if you go against the teachings of that religion. PERIOD. You can be a good person, and still have to defend your family. You can be a good person, and still drive a tank in the army or drop 500lb smart bombs on the bad guys. You can NOT do any of that, and still claim to be Jewish, Christian, or Muslim. When "religious" people admit this, there will not be any more "religious" extremism and far fewer reasons to go to war. The chants of "God is great", and all the other rhetoric will be replaced by "we are psycho nutjobs", "death to anyone even SLIGHTLY different from us", or "yeah, most of the stuff in our holy book is outrageously demented, but nevermind that, just join us anyway" and bingo... not nearly as good of a sales pitch for the cause.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nocturnalVX

...You can be a good person, and still drive a tank in the army or drop 500lb smart bombs on the bad guys. You can NOT do any of that, and still claim to be Jewish, Christian, or Muslim...

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And the bomb makers? The guidance systems engineers? The support personnel? The guy that cleans the windshield of the truck that's hauling the fuel? Slippery slope, your argument here. But it's all good. We can agree to disagree without beheading one another. I hope. :)

-V

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vendetta

Slippery slope, your argument here. But it's all good. We can agree to disagree without beheading one another. I hope. :)

-V

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Yes WE can. The problem is with those that slip so far down the slope that justifying clerical work in the armed forces becomes dropping the bomb. If that is ok, then bombing abortion clinics is ok too. Hey... as long as we are making exceptions, let's behead anyone that reads the wrong book or dresses in a shameful way. Americans are free to worship any god they wish (or no god at all) in any way they wish. All I hope for is that the people here and all over the world that claim to follow the religions that claim to follow the 10 commandments follow the good parts of those religions. Imagine if no Jew, no Christian, and no Muslim went against those teachings... Wars would be between a handful of evil pagans or atheists. When those few nutjobs offed themselves, there would be no more war. No more victims like Kayla. I can't wait.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nocturnalVX

...You can be a good person, and still have to defend your family... You can NOT do any of that, and still claim to be Jewish, Christian, or Muslim...

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So, the moment a believer "exceptions" someone attempting to murder his family, he can no longer claim, in good faith (ahem...), to be a member of that faith?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nocturnalVX

..Imagine if no Jew, no Christian, and no Muslim went against those teachings...

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But killing the non-believer in the name of religion is against only two of the three religions you point out. I do not think that the logical conclusion to the evolution of religious beliefs needs to be "we were once psycho nutjobs," but rather "there were once some psycho teachings in our religion, glad we sorted those out." That way, people could revere their faiths without having to sell them at the end of a sword. And, like you, I can't wait.

Kayla's faith led her to seek out the suffering and bring comfort. It's a sin in the truest sense that she got killed for that.

-V

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vendetta

But killing the non-believer in the name of religion is against only two of the three religions you point out.
-V

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I am going to assume that you meant Judaism and Christianity, but the fact is that all three are Abrahamic religions. That means that they share a common history, and that they all claim to follow the 10 commandments. "Thou shalt not kill" being one of them. There are countless horror stories because this one simple rule is ignored. There is no "unless"... People can carry on waging wars, they can be in the military or police, and they can defend themselves and/or loved ones with lethal force. They just can NOT do any of these things AND claim to be a member of one of these faiths. They would be lying to themselves, and whatever God they believe in. That is why I gave up after 4 years of seminary school. I could not live with that lie.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nocturnalVX

I am going to assume that you meant Judaism and Christianity, but the fact is that all three are Abrahamic religions. That means that they share a common history, and that they all claim to follow the 10 commandments. "Thou shalt not kill" being one of them. There are countless horror stories because this one simple rule is ignored. There is no "unless"... People can carry on waging wars, they can be in the military or police, and they can defend themselves and/or loved ones with lethal force. They just can NOT do any of these things AND claim to be a member of one of these faiths. They would be lying to themselves, and whatever God they believe in. That is why I gave up after 4 years of seminary school. I could not live with that lie.

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God did not make man to be infallible, as a matter of fact he created a system in which we are born with a sin upon our immortal soul. That is why confession was created for man to confess his sins and be absolved and still be able to enter the kingdom of heaven. So the simple fact the a man sins is not a concrete eviction from the faith never to be able to reenter. Of course is this thread which was started as a tribute to a kind soul that has sacrificed her life we want to threadjack into an argument about religion?

:whiteflag:
I didn't intend to thread jack, and I wouldn't classify this as an argument... just an discussion about the evils of religions' members. The subject is one that I care deeply about, and it is BECAUSE of the kind soul murdered that I had to share those feelings. I am glad to have met so many different and cool people through this forum (Sue being one of the nicest), and the subject hits harder when it hits so close. You are right though... I am done.

Proportionality is important. The phrase "an eye for an eye" gets dismissed a lot. I think Gandhi got it wrong, it doesn't make the whole world blind, it stops the cycle from spiraling.

That doesn't mean Jesus's constant litany to turn the other cheek is not a worthy aspiration. Just that war doesn't even live up to the minimum concept of an eye for eye.

Also:
>Evil and hate in the name of religion (any religion) is wrong.

Who needs religion? Just stop at "Evil and hate is wrong." There are plenty of examples of people committing atrocities without religious justification - Pol Pot, Hitler, Stalin, Cultural Revolution, Trail of Tears, etc. Religion is just one of many available cover stories people use to rationalize their actions -- it isn't a cause, it is an excuse.