Changing CV joints (front right and left axle assemblies)

Just got my engine replaced (whoo hoo!) and now I'm being told my CV joints are about to fail (both front left and right axles). Friggin money pit! I checked it myself while it was on the lift and although the grease isn't gritty, there is some play near the wheel joint. I can rotate the wheel by hand about 1/2" before the axle catches.

I'd like to do this myself, and from what I read in the "How To" on dropping the differential (closest article I could find concerning replacement of the CV axles), this should be all I'll need to do:

Quote:

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Step 1: Jack up the front of the VX & remove both front wheels and place on jack stands. Put your jack under the lower control arm and lift just enough to relieve pressure.
Step 2: Remove the 4 17mm bolts from the lower control arm & lower jack.
Step 3: Reposition the ball joint bracket to the top of the lower control arm.
Step 4: Careful with this step if you are re-using your CV boots. Remove the bands from the INNER CV BOOT. Move boot off of CV Joint.
Tip: I was able to cut the bands with a pair of wire cutters but it took a while & I even managed to not cut the boot in
the process. A small flat screwdriver helps to hold the band away from the boot whilst cutting. Heavy duty zip ties
can be used in place of the bands during re-install (not endorsing this but it worked for me).
Step 5: Locate the wire ring just inside the inner lip and slide a screw driver under it. Pop the ring out. This is the
retainer ring that holds your CV joint and axle shaft in.
Step 6: Pull the CV joint out by pulling the brake assembly outward. Cover the CV joint with plastic bag.

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Is that it? Just four bolts and a retaining ring? Sounds like just about 2 hours of work per side. Anyone actually replaced both axles assemblies before? Is this accurate?

Lastly, are both the right and left front axles interchangeable (ie: the same length?) I keep seeing just the RIGHT side available for sale at Autozone, etc. leading me to think the left is the same thing, just flipped. Is that right?

Thanks,

Mike

Yup thats it. The outer sections of the CVs are the same length (right&left)


GL

whatcha mean by "the outer section"? I thought the axle assemblies were one piece with two pressure fit joints on each end...

Does it come in two parts? confused? I certainly don't wanna be banging off a joint...

-Mike

Has anyone used the Autozone parts? Are they ok?

Check out: http://www.autozone.com/autozone/par.../N-jfq1pZ6o2dc

It lists two axle assemblies, one with inboard housing and one without. The one with housing has a pic showing a splined shaft on each end. The one without the housing has a spline on only one end and a joint bearing on the other. How easy is it to mount that bearing back into the inner component, or should I just get the one with the inner housing?

For some reason they are $79 without the housing, but it's only $59 for the one with the inboard housing.

(I think maybe that's what you meant by an inner and outer piece?)

Still confused...

Mike

I know Tom4bren wrote up a CV replacement for dummies, but I couldn't find it so hopefully he will chime in.

For now lets use some pictures so that we can all see what we are talking about:
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/da...Parts_Page.jpg

What you are seeing on the AutoZone site is what Isuzu is calling the "Drive Shaft Assy" (#1 above). Those are the same for the passenger and driver side and they are what you see with the two CV's and CV boots on them. If the play that you have is in the outer CV joint (one closest to the wheel) then replacing the drive shaft assembly will more than likely take care of it. One word of caution; the after market drive shaft assemblies have smaller balls (go ahead, laugh) in the CV assembly so they will rattle around a bit in the stock "Inner Joint Assy" (#7 above). If the play that you have is at the inner CV joint then hopefully the CV itself is boogered up, but if it isn't then your inner joint assembly may be pitted and scared. The inner joint assembly is actually inside of the "Axle Housing" (#15 above). The only part of this assembly that is visible is the outer race for the innner CV joint (what many of us call the "green cup" because it's green and, well, looks like a cup laid on it's side). The inner joint assembly is a different length on the drivers and passenger sides so you would have to find the specific one that you need. They are a different length due to the offset of the "Differential Assembly" (#29 above) that mounts to the "pumpkin" (bulbous part of the axle housing).

That was probably WAY more information than you were barganing for, but I just recently went through having the outer race (green cup) of my drivers side inner joint assembly (#7) re-machined because it was pitted due to the fact that I let a torn CV boot go un-repaired for too long.

Hope that helps......instead of confuses.

No...not too much info at all! exactly what I needed! Thanks! Parts ordered!

-Mike

The AZone shafts are remanufactured. For the same price you can get the Empi's on Amazon.com. In my opinion a much better part. Mine have been abused in Moab and held up just fine.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Triathlete

The AZone shafts are remanufactured. For the same price you can get the Empi's on Amazon.com. In my opinion a much better part. Mine have been abused in Moab and held up just fine.

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I just got a set of EMPI's from Amazon & I'm glad to hear yours are withstanding the type of extreme use you give them.

I was a bit concerned when i saw "made in China" on the box.

I just had a CV boot replaced this week, so I was looking up all the CV stuff here.

****ONE CAUTION****.....Many (owners and mechanics) have trashed their ABS sensor when changing the front inner CV boot.....including MY mechanic. It's about $400 new (per side!), I got one from a salvage yard from a Trooper for $90.

I'll dig up the schematics for the front axle that helped me understand what was going on, and Mark (mshardeman) was super helpful and sent some pics so I could further see what was going on and where the ABS sensor was etc...:thanx:

Here's my thread from last week discussing the CV boot repair AND the ABS sensor issue:
http://vehicross.info/forums/showthr...threadid=20650

Here's Tom's write up:
http://www.vehicross.info/downloads/...ch_Install.pdf

Here's Moncha's:
http://vehicross.info/modules.php?na...warticle&id=68

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ldub

I just got a set of EMPI's from Amazon

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:freek:Amazon says list price $841, and they're selling them for $90.95....:freek: That's the biggest discount I've EVER seen....on anything....please tell me that list price is jacked up....:_thinking

Mike,

The CVs for dummies thread is here:

http://www.vehicross.info/forums/sho...hlight=dummies

Hope the parts you ordered work out for you.

To answer a few of your questions:

The axles (left and right) are the same from the wheel all the way to the inner green cup. The shaft that the inner green cup is attached to is much longer on one side (offset differential).

The instructions you posted really are that easy ... but they are only for the boot replacement. If you need to swap out the CVs, then it's much more involved. In the download section, there are instructions for installing the differential drop brackets that show removal of the axles from the differential.

If it's your outer CV that's FUBAR then you're in for more work. Some say that the outer joints come apart but from my experience, it's a job for a professional.

I just got through with a re-build on mine - again. This time it was caused from hidden damage from an accident I had last year. The drivers side outer CV exploded. My guess is that the accident caused a fracture in the bearing cage and a few months later, it failed catastrophically. The rebuild basically took parts from 3 different sets of axles to build 1 good set. Just got it out of the shop 2 days ago so don't have any prognosis on the longevity of the rebuild.

Basically, the components that wear are the outer race (green cup), the inner race (star) & the cage (collar that surrounds the balls). As far as I know, MSHardeman & I are the only ones who have attempted a rebuild of existing parts. On mine (& I'm sure MSHardeman's was the same) the balls had worn grooves in both the inner and outer races. The shop will grind out those grooves and install larger balls to compensate for the sacrificed material. The only problem that I encountered was that the balls seemed to bind slightly in the cage but that was only before install. After installed (under load), they seemed fine. Remember that it was my outer CV that exploded so the rebuilt parts never failed.

There's an animated cartoon on wikipedia that shows how the CV works:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CV_joint

Quote:

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Originally Posted by VX KAT

:freek:Amazon says list price $841, and they're selling them for $90.95....:freek: That's the biggest discount I've EVER seen....on anything....please tell me that list price is jacked up....:_thinking

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They must'v used Isuzu OEM pricing as a guide when they came up with that number.

The last price I got from Isuzu is $932 per side. That was 6 months ago.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by tom4bren

The last price I got from Isuzu is $932 per side. That was 6 months ago.

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then we should all be buying a few extras at that price....just to have around.....

And some people thought the RCV shaft prices were to high! Looks like the bargain or the century IF it ever pans out.:)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Triathlete

The AZone shafts are remanufactured. For the same price you can get the Empi's on Amazon.com. In my opinion a much better part. Mine have been abused in Moab and held up just fine.

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Not a fan of the EMPI's myself. I come to find out after removing my passenger side CV that it was a EMPI where my driverside wasnt. I am guessing mine failed and broke because of a sevral compounding issues like being lifted and well going to Moab. So as I was driving down the highway it started making the usual noise it made but louder this time. It had made this noise when they where first installed but mechanic told me its because I was lifted and who was I to argue with him. I pulled over off the highway to check under my truck to see where new noise was comming from and well it started smoking (yes i said smoking) I see smoke coming from the inner green cup. I got home and after ripping them apart I see how being lifted and taking it off road that the EMPI failed due to its design and lets just say some peices got worn a bit. I threw away the shaft and forgot to take close up pictures but when I get home I will send what few pictures I did take. The OEM's and the outter barrings of the EMPI has balls (haha it is kinda funny mark) where as the inner has lugs with rings around them. When I had tried to pull them out some of the rings where stuck in the cup and I had to file the green cup enough to pull them out. The inside was soo worn.

Just my 23 cents of what I ran into. Hopefully the rest of you wont run into same trouble I had but againt I think EMPI went bad because of being lifted without drop brackets and going off road. If I wasnt lifted or had a drop bracket I think they would be fine for off road use.

So, it sounds like you had the entire empi long side. Yes those come with the tripod type joint. But if only using the short shaft it has balls.
I am lifted and have done a bit of "light" wheeling a time or two...mine are holding up well.:)
I think they will hold up till I get that 44 under there!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Triathlete

So, it sounds like you had the entire empi long side. Yes those come with the tripod type joint. But if only using the short shaft it has balls.
I am lifted and have done a bit of "light" wheeling a time or two...mine are holding up well.:)
I think they will hold up till I get that 44 under there!

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Learned something new.. :D

Glad to be of service!:)

Okay... apparently, no one has actually changed out an entire axle assembly, or at least hasn't come forward. As Tom4Bren said, it's much more involved than the simple 4-bolt, 1-retaining ring instructions for changing just the boots.

Here's what I've found after taking it apart as far as I dared.

A complete axle assembly is built like this:

outer spline->outer CV joint->shaft->inner CV joint->cup (also called an inner housing)->inner spline

Like Tom said, the CV boot repair instructions are helpful, but they leave the splines attached to the vehicle. This is because you can simply pull the inner CV joint out of the cup, easily disassemble it, and slide the new baffles on from that end.

If you want to remove and replace an entire assembly, including the splines, a much more involved process is required:

OUTER SPLINE: From what I can see, complete disasembly of the wheel is required. This probably will involve removing the brakes, removing that big honkin axle nut, repacking the bearings, etc. Unfortunately, I can't find anything here detailing this. Even the manual seems to be a little sparse.

INNER SPLINE: You have to completely drop the differential to remove the inner splines and cups. There is already an excellent tutorial on this.

Caveat: Depending on how much slack is present, you do not HAVE to replace the inner cup. You can simply purchase an axle assembly which stops at the inner CV (doesn't have the cup/inner housing), and reuse the prexisting cup. However, I've heard that the bearings in the aftermarket CV axle assemblies are smaller than factory, and will rattle around in the cup.

I would expect however, that if only your outer CV joint is bad, and you've purchased an axle assembly without the inner housing, you could disassemble the new inner CV on on the replacement axle assembly and use the CV joint from the old one instead, couldn't you?

I anyone has more information on removing the wheel assembly to get at the outer CV spline, I'd appreciate it.

Thanks

-Mike

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mcaramb

Okay... apparently, no one has actually changed out an entire axle assembly, or at least hasn't come forward. As Tom4Bren said, it's much more involved than the simple 4-bolt, 1-retaining ring instructions for changing just the boots.

I have ... twice.

Here's what I've found after taking it apart as far as I dared.

A complete axle assembly is built like this:

outer spline->outer CV joint->shaft->inner CV joint->cup (also called an inner housing)->inner spline

The CV boot repair instructions are helpful, but they leave the splines attached to the vehicle. This is because you can simply pull the inner CV joint out of the cup, easily disassemble it, and slide the new baffles on from that end.

If you want to remove and replace an entire assembly, including the splines, a much more involved process is required:

OUTER SPLINE: From what I can see, complete disasembly of the wheel is required. This probably will involve removing the brakes, removing that big honkin axle nut, repacking the bearings, etc. Unfortunately, I can't find anything here detailing this. Even the manual seems to be a little sparse.

No, you can disassemble the inner CV per the boot instructions - then remove the hub cover (6 allen bolts) - then remove 1 clip ring on the spline - then just slide the inner CV with shaft out of the hub assembly from the inside.

INNER SPLINE: You have to completely drop the differential to remove the inner splines and cups. There is an excellent tutorial on this.

Yes

Caveat: Depending on how much slack is present, you do not HAVE to replace the inner cup. You can simply purchase an axle assembly which stops at the inner CV (doesn't have the cup/inner housing), and reuse the prexisting cup. However, I've heard that the bearings in the aftermarket CV axle assemblies are smaller than factory, and will rattle around in the cup.

I have no response to that

I would expect however, that if only your outer CV joint is bad, and you've purchased an axle assembly without the inner housing, you could disassemble the new inner CV on on the replacement axle assembly and use the CV joint from the old one instead, couldn't you?

Yes, as long as the short shaft between the CVs has the same spline geometry at the inner CV.

I anyone has more information on removing the wheel assembly to get at the outer CV spline, I'd appreciate it.

Look in the Download Section for Kenny's bearing re-pack instructions. PM me if you can't find it & I'll send you the pdf.

Thanks

-Mike

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:)

Awesome that I don't have to completely take apart the wheel... will look at it today.

Would you recommend changing the cups?

What's the best way to test if they are hosed?

The boots were sealed and were in perfect condition, no grit in the grease, there was a little play in them, but real little, and it might have just been total slack down the drive train to the diff.

Would it be worth the effort of dropping the diff?

I got my axle assemblies from O'Reilly (includes the cup). While playing around with it, it surprised the hell outta me that I was able to pull the inner CV right out of the cup by hand (boot still attached). I immediately pushed it back in and felt around for missing balls and didn't find any, so it looks like it went back together ok, but I don't know why they didn't put a retaining ring in their cup to stop that from happenning.

Anyone have any experience with the O'Reilly assembly?

UPDATE - I pulled the boot off the O'Reilly assemby to see if the shaft geometry matched my old inner CV (intending to keep the old bearings since I'm no longer changing the cup), and discovered why it slid out on me earlier. It's not an Rzeppa joint at all, it's a Tripod joint, thus completely a different architecture. The cup is a bit larger than the stock cup, so that should have given me a clue. I put it back together neatly and returned them to O'Reilly. I've ordered the assemblies from Autozone instead (without the cup). I'll let you know how well it matches up to the original stock inner CV geometry when they come in.

-Mike

BTW, here are some instructions for the clip ring you'll need to pull for the outer shaft removal:

http://www.4x4wire.com/isuzu/tech/manualhubs/

You can run your finger along the grooves on the inside of the green cup. Rough with divets & grooves = worn; smooth = good.

If the only play was associated with the outer CVs, then yes, you can probably re-use the inner CV components.

OMG that was easy.

No need to drop the differential, I'm not going to replace the inner splines.

7 allen bolts and one lock ring later, I'm holding an axle in my hands :) Now that I've figured it all out, I literally had the other one off in under an hour (including jack up, and tire removal time)

I felt inside the cups as you suggested and they are perfectly smooth as were the ballbearings, chase and pivot bearing parts. Break cleaner is your friend. The grease just melts off.

I'm still waiting for the autozone parts to come in (sometime today they swear), but should have it all back together in a few hours if things match up. Will let everyone know.

I may take pics and put together a complete CV axle replacement guide so folks don't have to piecemeal the instructions from one place or the other like I did. Will post soon.

-Mike

Just curious, in a pinch, could I drive it like this with no axles attached?

Or, does there have to be some steel inside the core of the wheel bearings? Without the spline there, it seems like those bearings would be pretty structurally weak.

-Mike

Sorry, I can't answer that one for you. I had disassembled outers to run in mine while the CVs were being re-built.

UPDATE: The AUTOZONE replacement CV axles (WITHOUT the CUP) are indeed much smaller than the original stock. According to my caliper, the complete INNER BEARING assembly is more than 1/8" smaller in diameter from outer edge of one bearing to the outer edge of the bearing 180 degrees across from it. That's after compressing the both assemblys in the comparison inward as much as possible so slack wouldn't skew the result.

That's pretty significant. I don't think I want to put that in the stock cup. My guess is that it would eat itself within a year. If anyone has experience using smaller aftermarket bearings in the cup, I'd like to know how long it's lasted you.

Now, to my idea of simply replacing the bearing on the end of the shaft. Well, that's out. The rebuilt Autozone shaft has a 25 (approx) tooth spline on the inner bearing end. The stock shaft has a 33 (approx) tooth spline. So you can't interchange them. Why they are different, considering these are rebuilds is beyond me. My best guess is that they are rebuilds from a Trooper or something.

So... does anyone besides Autozone sell just the CV Axle without the cup? ie: with a Rzepper joint, not a Tripod?

thanks
Mike

& yous guys wanted to know why in the ^%$# I rebuilt OEM shafts instead of buying aftermarket ...

BWAAHAAHAA!!!!


Mike, sorry you're going through this frustration. All those aftermarket options looked so promising to me when I was going through it too. Is there a shop in your area that can re-build your OEMs?

BTW, sorry I missed your call the other day. Cell battery was dead that day and just got around to listening to voicemails last night.

OK. After weighing all the options, I decided to go ahead and install the aftermarket slightly-smaller-than-factory Axle assemblies from Autozone (without the inline housing).

I figure at $80 a pop, and only 2.5 hrs of work per side, it was worth the risk of installing them just to see how long they last. So far, they are working fine, however, after a week or so of driving, some noise has finally surfaced. It's not very loud (gets mostly covered by road noise), but it sounds like one of the those old-school spinning noise makers for ballgames, etc.

The folks at Cordone (the actual manufacturer of the refurbs) say that they've never had a complaint, or even been told about the difference in size. I expect that's because the VX ain't like *exactly* like the myriad of other cars this axle is meant for. Well, they know now.

I'll let everyone know if it gets any louder, or if they break. I'll play guinea pig here :)

-Mike

Both my right and left cv joints are bad and I am in the process of replacing. I came across this thread and just want to make sure I am understanding everything... I just need to purchase 2 of the EMPI off amazon and they will work either on the right or the left side? Thanks in advance!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jn

Both my right and left cv joints are bad and I am in the process of replacing. I came across this thread and just want to make sure I am understanding everything... I just need to purchase 2 of the EMPI off amazon and they will work either on the right or the left side? Thanks in advance!!

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They'll work as long as the the noise/vibrations isn't from the inner green cup. If the green cups are worn you'll need to drop the diff, remove the inner shafts, and source OEM replacements. It's worth checking before you order, I learned the hard way. :yesy:

My thread here with pics should help you decipher some of the parts.

http://vehicross.info/forums/showthread.php?t=21040

HTH,

Bart

Thank you!!