Towing the VX

Towing the VX;
I was looking for a dinghy to tow behind my motorhome when I accidently stumbled onto my VX. I had never seen or heard of one before. I knew immediatly we were meant for each other. I figured I could get around the fact that it won't tow 4-down by putting it on a trailer. Click on the pic.
Attachment 1002
We have taken a couple of trips now and I realize it's not too practical. First the VX and trailer weigh 5,800 lbs and the small motorhome knows it's there. Secondly it's kind of a pain to unload and load at times. Thirdly, parking the trailer is a problem at some RV parks.

Heres where I hope for some help. Does anyone know of a transfer case with a neutral that will mate up to the VX tranny so it will tow 4 down. Has anyone got an idea how I can get the VX to tow?

Well, I'm certainly no help, but something I was wondering, if you disconnect the rear drive shaft at the diff, is there any reason why you couldn't use one of those dollies you can rent and sometimes see for sale cheap where you drop the front axle in?

I'm going to show my ignorance about transfer cases and towing 4-down here but why can't you just put the TOD in neutral and pull that VX as-is? Why would you need another transfer case? Seems like all you would need to do is figure out a way to lock the TOD in neutral since from what I remember there's no detente for neurtal. Wouldn't want that thing jumping into gear if you hit a bump going down the road!

OK - somebody splain it to me...

SlowPro, again no smarter then you. Just know that you can't drag this puppy with the rear wheels down and the fronts dangling. That's why my comment about disconnecting the shaft from the rear diff. Beyond that, I don't have a clue.

Yeah, my bro was a repo man for a while and found that out the hard way when he towed an AWD Honda with only the rear wheels on the ground. I think by 4-down he mean with all four wheels on the road so there wouldn't be a speed differential between front and rear most of the time and when there was it wouldn't matter with the TOD in neutral anyway. BUT - since we don't have hubs that can unlock, basically the whole drivetrain would still be spinning so I think it must be more of a wear issue.

No worries - I'm sure some knowledgeable VXer will wade into this conversation soon and then we'll know!

...but of course that wouldn't be solved by a different transfer case so we're back to square 1..

OK - time to fold some laundry. Maybe there will be an answer in the morning. What is this... Twitter?

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Originally Posted by SlowPro48

No worries - I'm sure some knowledgeable VXer will wade into this conversation soon and then we'll know!

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Que LDUB

You can solve the front wheel issue with locking wheel hubs that litterally disconnect the front wheels from the tranny by simply turning a switch on the hub. Inexpensive and simple to fit.

The rear is more problematic.

you could reverse it onto this and tow it backwards with the front wheels running freely

http://www.northerntool.com/images/p.../125760_lg.jpg
http://www.northerntool.com/images/p.../125760_lg.jpg


also look here

http://rv-roadtrips.thefuntimesguide..._behind_rv.php

http://auto.howstuffworks.com/auto-p...g-options3.htm

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Originally Posted by rowhard

Que LDUB

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I use the "search" function...:smilewink

http://www.vehicross.info/forums/sho...ghlight=towing

http://www.vehicross.info/forums/sho...ghlight=towing

http://www.vehicross.info/forums/sho...ghlight=towing

Travelin2--- I know this isn't what you want to hear, but I'd leave the VX at home and get a little gas miser micro-car camp site beater that's front wheel drive and use a simple single-axle tow-dolly with the car's front drive axle on the tow-dolly itself.

Get something like a used cheapo Ford Festiva, Kia, Hyundai, etc. that doesn't weigh jack-sh!!!!!!!t, and is front wheel drive (for tow-dolly convenience). Save the VX for when you're at home. Your VX will last longer (parked at home), and your Motorhome will get better MPG, saving you money all-around. Just my 2-cents.

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Originally Posted by Riff Raff

Travelin2--- I know this isn't what you want to hear, but I'd leave the VX at home and get a little gas miser micro-car camp site beater that's front wheel drive and use a simple single-axle tow-dolly with the car's front drive axle on the tow-dolly itself.

Get something like a used cheapo Ford Festiva, Kia, Hyundai, etc. that doesn't weigh jack-sh!!!!!!!t, and is front wheel drive (for tow-dolly convenience). Save the VX for when you're at home. Your VX will last longer (parked at home), and your Motorhome will get better MPG, saving you money all-around. Just my 2-cents.

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:thumbup:...:thumbup: on that!

Travelin2,

It sure would be nice to be able to tow the VX 4 down but it really isn't a good idea.

Swapping out the transfer case with a neutral will be a major undertaking and very expensive.

Disconnecting the rear driveshaft and putting the front wheels on a dolly worries me too. The limited slip in the rear diff may not like that at all (not sure).

Putting the transfer case selector between TOD and 4L just plain scares the hell outa me.

Eons ago I read an article about someone who had installed locking hubs front and rear for the purpose of towing 4 down. This wasn't on a VX but the concept still applies. I'm talking about an article I read 20 years ago so there's no way I'd ever be able to remember where I read it but it is something you could look into.

Thanks fellas; I pretty much figured I would hear what you guys are saying but thought there might be an Easy Button out there I hadn't thought of. I think getting a different rig like Riff Raff said is the logical way.

Tow the MH with the VX!!!

LOL... j/k

:bwgy::bwgr::bgwp::bgwo:

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Originally Posted by Ldub

I use the "search" function...:smilewink

http://www.vehicross.info/forums/sho...ghlight=towing

http://www.vehicross.info/forums/sho...ghlight=towing

http://www.vehicross.info/forums/sho...ghlight=towing

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Yeah you did - and it didn't turn up squat did it?

Did you even read those threads? The last one has absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand (it talks about CV boots getting torn by towing on a rollback) and NONE of those threads answer the question of why changing out the transfer case would allow 4 down towing.

I'm just trying to learn something NEW here... :confused:

...I already know how to use the search function! :bgwb:

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Originally Posted by SlowPro48

Yeah you did - and it didn't turn up squat did it?

Did you even read those threads? The last one has absolutely nothing to do with the topic at hand (it talks about CV boots getting torn by towing on a rollback) and NONE of those threads answer the question of why changing out the transfer case would allow 4 down towing.

I'm just trying to learn something NEW here... :confused:

...I already know how to use the search function! :bgwb:

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Yep... read every word...I was trying to illustrate that towing the VX is mostly, not recommended.

I'm very happy that you know how to use the search function...:yes:

I think Crotchrocket might have the best idea.

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Originally Posted by tom4bren

Putting the transfer case selector between TOD and 4L just plain scares the hell outa me.

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Most definitely a concern as I verified this morning that there is no detente for neutral - so you would have to fab up a bracket of some kind to make darn sure the lever stayed in place while being towed. I think that would be a lot easier than figuring out how to put in a different transfer case though!

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Originally Posted by Ldub

...I was trying to illustrate that towing the VX is mostly not recommended.

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But why? What would swapping out the transfer case change? That's all I'm asking!

What's the difference between putting some other transfer case in neutral and pulling the VX behind an RV - and putting the existing transfer case in neutral and pulling it behind an RV? All I can think of is several thousand dollars and a lot of aggrevation but there's probably more to the story and it got me curious and that's why I'm asking.

BTW LBub, I've decided that, although I DO know how to use the search button, you are so good at it that I'm going to stop using it and instead I will post my inane questions then wait for you to post the search results as links - that way all I have to do is click my mouse. Sweet, huh? :yes: We're going to have to talk about quality control though. I'm still not sure what damaged CV boots due to improper tie down on a rollback has to do with towing but I'll have another cup of coffee and maybe it will come to me.

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Originally Posted by Ldub

I think Crotchrocket might have the best idea.

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i think your right good sir :D

I agree that Crotchrockets idea has some merit since I have seen tow trucks pulling vehicles backward with the rear off the ground. I have to wonder though how it would track and how the tire wear would be since the camber, caster, toe-in combo is designed for the forward direction. Thanks for the links to the previous posts Ldub. It wasn't laziness that made me post this, just wanted to get some fresh feedback and see if I could draw you out of your lair.;) It is pretty obvious from this discussion and the previous threads that its not practical.

SlowPro, I know its bugging you why I mentioned installing a TC with 2H/4H/N/4L. The Borg/Warner TOD TC doesn't have a dedicated neutral and the system of clutches that makes up the TOD system evidently don't allow for the driveshafts to be driven without the transmission being spun. I know very little about the innards of the TOD TC but in looking up what it would cost to restuff the thing if a guy fried it gives one pause. Also if the silent chain is running there is one or more bearings in the transmission that need to be lubed and some require a lube pump to be turning. I'm not up on all that stuff so back to Riff Raffs' response..."Get a different car". I'm sure there are guys on here that understand what makes things tick in there.

Travelin2,

OK so neutral in our TOD transfer case isn't really a "true" neutral. I just assumed it was neutral since the shop manual calls it that and the vehicle will roll when the transmission is in Park with the TOD in the neutral position.

Now it all makes sense. THANK YOU for that explanation. :thumbup:

I guess I'm the one confused. Mine is either in 4 hi or 4 lo according to the insignia on the shifter knob. It doesn't indicate a usable neutral.

[QUOTE=SlowPro48;161906]BTW LBub, I've decided that, although I DO know how to use the search button, you are so good at it that I'm going to stop using it and instead I will post my inane questions then wait for you to post the search results as links - that way all I have to do is click my mouse. Sweet, huh? :yes: [QUOTE]

Oh, I'm SURE that you can count on me...:yes:...:thumbup:...:laughing:

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Originally Posted by Travelin2

I guess I'm the one confused. Mine is either in 4 hi or 4 lo according to the insignia on the shifter knob. It doesn't indicate a usable neutral.

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Slopro was indicating a false neutral that exists between 4 Hi & 4 Lo.

on this same topic... is it bad to let the vx roll down a hill in neutral? occasionally if im in too much of a hurry to let the vx warm up properly ill just start it and leave it in neutral and let it roll down to the bottom of my hill.. probably like 1/2-3/4 miles with the vx just idling, that way when i get to the bottom ive had a lil more time for oil flow.. i usually hit 35-40mph by the end

what exactly makes the vx bad to tow all 4 down?

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Originally Posted by Ldub

Slopro was indicating a false neutral that exists between 4 Hi & 4 Lo.

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Uhhh.... NO! I'm not indicating anything Ldub. Because I don't know.

The shop manual makes numerous mentions of a neutral position in the TOD and when I put my mine in that position all TOD lights go out as described in the manual and the VX rolls freely despite the transmission being in Park - so it sure seemed like neutral to me. And that's why I didn't understand the need for a transfer case swap.

But then Travelin2 said, "The Borg/Warner TOD TC doesn't have a dedicated neutral and the system of clutches that makes up the TOD system evidently don't allow for the driveshafts to be driven without the transmission being spun." So I thought well maybe the TOD "neutral" is just for diagnostic purposes or something and not a "true" usable neutral as found in other transfer cases. But again, I don't know. That's why I asked the original question. All I was trying to do is figure something out man - simply to satisfy curiosity...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SlowPro48

BTW LBub, I've decided that, although I DO know how to use the search button, you are so good at it that I'm going to stop using it and instead I will post my inane questions then wait for you to post the search results as links - that way all I have to do is click my mouse. Sweet, huh? :yes: We're going to have to talk about quality control though. I'm still not sure what damaged CV boots due to improper tie down on a rollback has to do with towing but I'll have another cup of coffee and maybe it will come to me.

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Did it come to you yet?...:_confused

This sentence from the last post is what I was getting at, by including that particular thread...:_thinking

[Quote] I knew to always use a flatbed when moving the VX [quote]

Which again illustrated that flat towing the VX is ill advised.

Sorry if you feel that I caused you an unjust amount of extra reading...:sighwgray

You might want to add me to your "ignore" list, to prevent future over reading...:laughing:

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Originally Posted by etlsport

on this same topic... is it bad to let the vx roll down a hill in neutral? occasionally if im in too much of a hurry to let the vx warm up properly ill just start it and leave it in neutral and let it roll down to the bottom of my hill.. probably like 1/2-3/4 miles with the vx just idling, that way when i get to the bottom ive had a lil more time for oil flow.. i usually hit 35-40mph by the end

what exactly makes the vx bad to tow all 4 down?

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The only advice I'm able to find in the owners manual, (ch. 6 - pg. 15) is with regard to coasting down hill being unsafe, I haven't been able to find any mechanical reason given against coasting.

And back to towing...:rolleyesg

In ch. 7 - pg.15 it says:

The all wheel drive car must never be towed with either the front wheels or the rear wheels raised.

*The car may be towed from the front with all four wheels in the ground.

*This vehicle may be towed at speeds below 35 mph (55 km/h) for a distance not exceeding 50 miles (80 km).

*Towing attachments must be made to main structural members of the vehicle. Do not attach to bumpers or associated brackets.

They didn't mention anything about front axle half shafts...:smilewink

I don't know "what exactly" makes the VX bad to tow 4 down, I would guess it has to do with the TOD...:_confused

Speaking from pure, unadulterated ignorance; I think the towing 4 down problem is associated with lack of lubrication.

"there is one or more bearings in the transmission that need to be lubed and some require a lube pump to be turning."

I do know that when I towed my Suzuki Samurai 4 down with the tranny and TX in neutral, the odo and speedo both registered. That indicates to me that there is much more moving than you would ever expect whilst in neutral.

Eric,

Since you have the vehicle running and in neutral, you should be fine. You're supposed to check fluid level on an automatic tranny only after idling in neutral for 10 min to ensure proper reading. That implies to me that the pump is running and therefore keeping everything lubed.

Tom

manual hubs on front and a quick release drive line in rear.....
http://www.remcotowing.com/node/7
good stuff on towing here
http://www.remcotowing.com

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Originally Posted by don moore

manual hubs on front and a quick release drive line in rear.....
http://www.remcotowing.com/node/7
good stuff on towing here
http://www.remcotowing.com

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Don; Thanks for that thought. I think it saved my VX. Remco says no but this outfit says the same thing you did and they buy their stuff from Remco..go figure?
http://www.drivetrain.com/parts_cata...ing/isuzu.html

:)

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Originally Posted by crotchrocket

You can solve the front wheel issue with locking wheel hubs that litterally disconnect the front wheels from the tranny by simply turning a switch on the hub. Inexpensive and simple to fit.

The rear is more problematic.
you could reverse it onto this and tow it backwards with the front wheels running freely
http://www.northerntool.com/images/p.../125760_lg.jpg
http://www.northerntool.com/images/p.../125760_lg.jpg
also look here
http://rv-roadtrips.thefuntimesguide..._behind_rv.php
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/auto-p...g-options3.htm

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Looking down the road a ways...we'd like to tow the VX behind our FJ to get to Moab or maybe behind an RV one day. (FJ has 5,000 lb tow capacity...I know it's getting close here). Read this thread and the several other threads referenced, but not sure we're clear.

1) Crotch mentioned using a dolly and tow it backwards, with rear wheels up. Did this turn out to be an OK solution?

2) Crotch also mentioned getting FRONT LOCKING WHEEL HUBS which easily disconnect front wheels from tranny.....then could you tow it on dolly backwards with rear wheels up? Isn't that what you just got, the AVM manual hubs? Crotch, are they VX specific...what's the model number? My quick search so far hasn't found them yet for the VX.... Any downside to doing this? With this method, any other things ya gotta do so you don't screw other stuff up on the VX?

3) The Remco towing site lists the VX and many products available, but the "Application notes" happen to mention that TOD AWD MUST be towed on a trailer....so are those parts listed part of their Drive Shaft Coupling device or not? Many don't sound like it to me.

4) Remco's info talks about RearWD...so if you got Remco's Drive Shaft Coupling installed for the rear wheels, could you then tow the VX with Front wheels on dolly?

Any other options....while trying to avoid flatbed method if possible? Be kind, I don't know squat about this stuff.....:wave::thanx:

Theoretically it is a doable approach.

I would still have concerns about excessive bearing wear on the front wheel assemblies, uneven tire wear since only the fronts are down for extended periods, running tires backwards that were 'broke in' rolling forward and I don't even want to think about the damage if you ever forgot to unlock the hubs.

I'll be looking into the car trailer option. I don't think loading/unloading from a trailer is any more difficult than with a dolly. Storage of the trailer is really the only downside. I think the rig would tow better on a trailer anyway (especially if equipped with surge brakes).