Timing Belt Parts

So, I am probably going to do my timing belt within the next 2 months. I have been seeing on eBay Timing Belt kits that come with a water pump. So, is it common practice to change the water pump at the same time as doing the timing belt?

Can someone give me a breakdown of all the parts that are needed to do the Timing Belt swap? Also, any special tools needed?

I found this thread which talked about a lot of extra parts and not just a belt.

http://vehicross.info/forums/showthr...ht=timing+belt

Thanks- Bart

The only reason to do the water pump at the same time is 'cause you're already 97.2% there & Gooney Bird says that your water pump will start leaking 2 days after you replace your timing belt.

Sorry, I don't have any info on the parts you'll need.

I just did the timing belt on my montaro about 2 months ago. I tried to save money by not doing the water pump too. 1 week later the water pump started leaking. So, yes replacing the WP is a good idea. It will save you a lot of time.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nfpgasmask

is it common practice to change the water pump at the same time as doing the timing belt?

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nfp,

I bought THIS timing belt and waterpump kit last July when I blew my engine and had it replaced witha used engine. The mechanic threw the labor in with the R&R since the engine was already out and EVERYBODY I talked to said to do the TB change since the price diff between the belt alone and the pump alone is way more cost effective to buy the full kit and do the pump at the same time... and as I watched the mechanic do the pump at the same time, it took him like an extra 15 mins to switch the pump then do the belt.

I am having the timing belt done Monday.
This is what I am replacing:

Tensioner/pulley 89713 62561
Push rod 8973285120
Timing Belt 89713-63210

A/C Idler Pulley 8971783540
Tensioner arm/pulley 8971258601
Serpentine belt (Gatorback) 4060900
Supercharger Belt GTR 4060485

Radiator Hose upper
Radiator Hose lower
New Super aluminum Radiator with fans!
Hose Heater bypass 8-97167694-2
(May not be accessible)
Water pump 8971675540
Water pump gasket included
Post/stud 8971362660

I do not know what "Seals for the cam" is/are, noted in Aussie post
EBAY kit cost a lot less the Isuzu parts.

Roy

Do the pump and gasket, make sure you replace the tensioner. Don't let anyone talk you out of it, brother Bart

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Chopper

Do the pump and gasket, make sure you replace the tensioner. Don't let anyone talk you out of it, brother Bart

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Good advice...:thumbup:

My two cents is this...any time I replace something that's "deep in" which will most likely entail a bill that's more than 60-70% labor cost(if I weren't doing it myself), I either go with OEM from Merlin, or an aftermarket source, if it's been proven as good or better than OEM...:_wrench:
Never shop for "internals" with price in mind...:naughty:

Hey Bart,

Make sure you read the Timing Belt TSB in my gallery - when I did mine I had instructions from two different sources that were both WRONG (including the CD manual) and I screwed up my timing real bad. I finally took it to a shop and it took THEM two tries before they found this info and got it right.

Kyle

Where did you get the parts? From Merlin? And do you recall how much all that cost?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by newthings

I am having the timing belt done Monday.
This is what I am replacing:

Tensioner/pulley 89713 62561
Push rod 8973285120
Timing Belt 89713-63210

A/C Idler Pulley 8971783540
Tensioner arm/pulley 8971258601
Serpentine belt (Gatorback) 4060900
Supercharger Belt GTR 4060485

Radiator Hose upper
Radiator Hose lower
New Super aluminum Radiator with fans!
Hose Heater bypass 8-97167694-2
(May not be accessible)
Water pump 8971675540
Water pump gasket included
Post/stud 8971362660

I do not know what "Seals for the cam" is/are, noted in Aussie post
EBAY kit cost a lot less the Isuzu parts.

Roy

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I think Merlin does have all these parts. The list adds up fast. I think for everything above (that list sounds about right) it was close to $600.

I will be doing this in the spring as well.

Bart

Bart,

Appreciate the info. I'm planning on a spring makeover as well.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nfpgasmask

I think Merlin does have all these parts. The list adds up fast. I think for everything above (that list sounds about right) it was close to $600.

I will be doing this in the spring as well.

Bart

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So, going back to this again, I am planning to order up my parts from Merlin soon.

So, now, the question is, to do myself or not to do myself?

How many of you out there have tackled the timing belt change and associated part swaps/maintenance?

I am not afraid of taking my VX down for a week or so, because we have 2 cars now, so that is not a huge problem, but I am more so wondering if this is simply to involved to handle in my own garage. I know the entire front end has to be taken apart, but what about any special tools/etc?

Thanks- Bart

Bart,

You should be able to do it yourself. I don't think there are any special tools required. Of course I've never done it on the VX so I could be talking out my arse.

If you do it yourself, one word of advice. When all is put back together, turn the engine by hand first before you hit the starter. When I replaced the timing belt on an old Eclipse for the second time, I figured I had the process down & almost talked myself out of turning the engine by hand. Somehow I had messed up & the timing was waaaay off. If I had hit the starter, the engine would have siezed.

Tom

also make sure you get the proper TSB for the timing belt change... iirc many have had issues with following the repair manual only to be fixed by following the tsb

Thanks guys, I think I have all the paperwork I need. So now I just need to order up the parts.

When I do this, I will be sure to photograph the whole process and put together a new how to.

Bart

Bart, do you have the timing belt replacement instructional video? If you don’t I can put it on YouTube for you.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kodiak

Bart, do you have the timing belt replacement instructional video? If you don’t I can put it on YouTube for you.

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Hmmm, I might have it. What did it come with? I have a huge folder full of VX stuff on my PC at home so I will have to check for it. Is there are common file name for it I could check for? Thanks man!

Bart

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nfpgasmask

Hmmm, I might have it. What did it come with? I have a huge folder full of VX stuff on my PC at home so I will have to check for it. Is there are common file name for it I could check for? Thanks man!

Bart

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I don’t remember how I got it, it was about a year or so ago. I was thinking of post it anyway, I’ll add a link as soon as it’s done.

Here it is, I just finished uploading it. I’ve replaced the timing belts on about 4 vehicles in my day. This video is best step by step I’ve seen.:thumbup:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjhNO...e=channel_page

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kodiak

Here it is, I just finished uploading it. I’ve replaced the timing belts on about 4 vehicles in my day. This video is best step by step I’ve seen.:thumbup:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kjhNO...e=channel_page

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Awesome, thanks! I will check out when I get home tonight!

Bart

I brought these timing belt videos to the internet right here in 2007. You can bet that anywhere that these videos exist on the internet is due to my original post here. I'd be shocked if these vids didn't get lifted to that Russian ftp site. Scott copied 'em and has them hosted here also at vx.info with my original thread in the how to's section. If I ever disappear and they're not on my host site, the vids and images will always be on this site.
http://www.vehicross.info/modules.php?name=Content&file=viewarticle&id=37

Here's all my stuff again so ya don't have to click to another thread. If anybody can add photos or a write-up with new info not found here, please do. I also posted this stuff over at the Planet and a guy who completely lost the timing found this info worked exactly right to get it running again.

These vids are small and a bit rough to keep the file size down. They're instructional and not for entertainment, so as long as the message gets thru, that's what counts. WMV files only.

This one is for changing the belt if the timing has not been disrupted.
8:12 and 14.2 mb-
http://www.drivehq.com/file/df.aspx/publish/mgpa/techvids/timebelt.wmv

This vid is for changing the belt when the timing has been lost.
5:39 and 11.9 mb-
http://www.drivehq.com/file/df.aspx/publish/mgpa/techvids/timing2.wmv

Another one for when the timing has been lost showing it in a different way.
4:00 and 4.4 mb-
http://www.drivehq.com/file/df.aspx/publish/mgpa/techvids/timing.wmv

http://www.drivehq.com/file/df.aspx/...s/belttime.gif
http://www.drivehq.com/file/df.aspx/...mgs/belt25.gif

http://www.drivehq.com/file/df.aspx/...mgs/belt26.gif

http://www.drivehq.com/file/df.aspx/...mgs/belt27.gif

http://www.drivehq.com/file/df.aspx/...mgs/belt28.gif

http://www.drivehq.com/file/df.aspx/...mgs/timesb.gif

http://www.drivehq.com/file/df.aspx/.../imgs/pump.gif

Mark Griffin

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Chopper

Do the pump and gasket, make sure you replace the tensioner. Don't let anyone talk you out of it, brother Bart

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Well, even good 'ol Merlin tried to talk me out of that $287.88 part, but I resisted my internal sense of cheapness and bought it anyway.

Here is a breakdown of what I purchased for the timing belt stuff and the price tag from Merlin:

1) Timing Belt - $58.79
2) Water Pump - $156.79
3) Tensioner Pulley - $287.88
4) Push Rod - $77.74
5) Post/Stud - $14
6) Upper Radiator Hose - $25.13
7) Lower Radiator Hose - $18.07
8) O-rings (coolant leak fix) - $6.58
9) Idler Pulley - $101.44

Plus a few other bits and pieces bringing me to a *quite* painful $784.88!!! ;puke2;

Now, at that cost, I definitely need to do the job myself. I ain't paying another huge sum for a mech to do it!!

I also asked Merlin about changing the radiator itself, and he said it really isn't necessary unless you are having problems. So, I didn't order a new radiator. But, I will be pulling it out, so is there a way to clean a radiator? I would at least like to do that.

Thanks everyone for the excellent help.

Bart

That’s where I got it! Sorry deermagnet. I should just assume that all the VX wmv files I have are yours.:p

Bart,
All I’d do to the radiator is clean it really good. You could go get it pressure tested, But other then that there’s not mush ells you can do.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kodiak

Bart,
All I’d do to the radiator is clean it really good. You could go get it pressure tested, But other then that there’s not mush ells you can do.

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OK, cool, but how? Do I just run some water over it??? Hose it down??

Thanks - Bart

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nfpgasmask

OK, cool, but how? Do I just run some water over it??? Hose it down??

Thanks - Bart

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That’s about it. But some dish soap and a tooth brush can help in the really tuff spots.;)

P.S. Don’t paint it. It will make your radiator less efficient.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kodiak

P.S. Don’t paint it. It will make your radiator less efficient.

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Paint it? Why would I paint it? It's not like I already paint every visible piece of my VX black or anything....:rolleyes: :laughing:

Thanks, Richard!

Bart

You can have your radiator rodded out at a radiator shop depending on the radiator. It's just like cleaning your gun barrel after shooting. It just pushes out all the accumulated crud and gunk that has been building up in there since day one. You could probably do it yourself too. I think you just have to remove the side caps which give you access to the radiator cores which are just horizontal tubes. Then find the right size rod to use(like possibly a .223 or .308 brass jag).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Ascinder

You can have your radiator rodded out at a radiator shop depending on the radiator. It's just like cleaning your gun barrel after shooting. It just pushes out all the accumulated crud and gunk that has been building up in there since day one. You could probably do it yourself too. I think you just have to remove the side caps which give you access to the radiator cores which are just horizontal tubes. Then find the right size rod to use(like possibly a .223 or .308 brass jag).

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Cool, thanks. Hopefully I will tackle this project next month or at least no later than May.

You boys are welcome to come by and help out/observe. :)

Bart

Having purchased all the parts from Merlin I had the timing belt replaced yesterday. Labor charge was $320.00. Does that seem reasonable?

Yeah, that’s sound about right.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ScottinMA

Having purchased all the parts from Merlin I had the timing belt replaced yesterday. Labor charge was $320.00. Does that seem reasonable?

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Ok, I am going to get up early and tackle my timing belt change. I plan to document/photograph the process with hopes to put together a nice how-to.

If anyone has any tips/pointers let me know!

Beau/Clint, if you guys wanna come by and observe/help, just gimme a call.

Bart

good luck! :thumbup::thumbup:

only advice i can give is.. have a few beers handy for when you are done

Bart, think about using one of these on your radiator too. Know it is to late to buy one, but you might be able to make one or rent one from a radiator shop. Offer to deposit the cost of a replacement and when returned in good condition, they only charge you 5 or 10 bucks.
http://www.diynetwork.com/diy/ab_aut...271301,00.html

I have the whole front end apart right now. Radiator, hoses, fan, timing belt covers, it's all out. Been at it (taking my time and taking photos) since 8:30am.

Bart

wow...looks like time to make a run to go get some brews to keep you going for a few more hours...

HALP!

It's 7:30, and I am done for today. All I can say is that there are a lot of learn-as-you-go things that happened today. :rolleyes:

The manual sucks, says stuff like "remove this part", but it does not tell you how, doesn't tell you how many bolts/nuts to unwind, nothin.

At this point I am ready to remove the belt, but I am very confused.

Watching the timing belt video makes it look like the hash marks on THE BELT, THE PULLY, AND THE HOUSING should line up. In my case, no matter how many times I turn the engine, all three marks DO NOT line up. So, I take it I am simply supposed to line up the marks on the belt, with the marks on the engine housing, ignoring the position of the the marks on the pulleys. Has anyone done this who knows the procedure? I am nervous about doing it wrong. I have turned the engine at least 6 or more times trying to get everything to line up with no success. :_brickwal

I have time to do this, so hopefully someone can reply and give me some info. Otherwise I may have to wait until Monday so I can call Merlin or my local Isuzu mech. Here are some photos of what I mean:

http://www.nofuture.com/myvx/timing1.jpg

http://www.nofuture.com/myvx/timing2.jpg

This is the LEFT BANK PULLY and the respective marks. You can see the line on the belt is aligned with the hash mark on the housing but NOT aligned with the mark on the pulley. WTF? The bottom photo is the same with the marks in red.

Thanks - Bart

Man Bart that is a bummer, I am watching your thread closely because once you break trail here I'm gonna try it. I sure can't offer an answer but the possibilities that pop in my head is first of all someone may have installed a belt previously that is the right length but marked for a different engine. #2 It was installed with the left bank that far out of time.But then how could it run?#3 I seem to remember reading that the cam to crank ratio is such that it takes many revs to make the cam marks all come back around to the belt marks once it is rolled off of perfect. I'm just rambling here but If I were in Reno I'd buy you a cool one and tell you that tomorrow someone that knows is gonna solve this so kick back for the night. Good luck. John

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Travelin2

Man Bart that is a bummer, I am watching your thread closely because once you break trail here I'm gonna try it. I sure can't offer an answer but the possibilities that pop in my head is first of all someone may have installed a belt previously that is the right length but marked for a different engine. #2 It was installed with the left bank that far out of time.But then how could it run?#3 I seem to remember reading that the cam to crank ratio is such that it takes many revs to make the cam marks all come back around to the belt marks once it is rolled off of perfect. I'm just rambling here but If I were in Reno I'd buy you a cool one and tell you that tomorrow someone that knows is gonna solve this so kick back for the night. Good luck. John

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Thanks, John. I really do hope someone chimes in who has done this. I was thinking the same thing, but I have owned my VX since 25k and I really can't imagine the timing belt was done or invaded prior to me doing so. But, anything is possible I suppose. Obviously, it is currently installed correctly, otherwise How would I have put 65,000 miles on it with no timing issues?

One possibility is that I need to keep turning it, but again, I have turned the crankshaft pulley an upwards of 10 times trying to get everything to line up. When I stopped, I was turning and it looked like it was almost there, about half an inch off. So I turned it one more time and then it was a half an inch off on the other side, so :wtfy:

Here's the real question, and maybe a stupid one, but I know nothing about engine timing, so here goes:

Why can't I align the marks on the belt with the marks on the housing, remove the belt, and put the new one on with the marks in the same exact spot? How could it POSSIBLY be off if I do it this way?

Maybe I am overthinking this and being uber paranoid, but I REALLY don't want to mess this up.

Bart

I see what you mean about changing the belt without moving anything shouldn't make a difference, but if you had to move the crank ever so slightly to get the cogs to align you wouldn't know which way you need to nudge it to be right without marks to go by. From what I read doing the belt change with the cams out of time gets considerably more complicated. I think that is the section where I read it takes a considerable amount of revs to make the marks "catch up". I would suggest leaving the belt on till you find your Guru. He'll surface. Can you hook your battery up so you can turn it over without plugs and have someone watch to see if the cam marks gain as it spins?

Quote:

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Why can't I align the marks on the belt with the marks on the housing, remove the belt, and put the new one on with the marks in the same exact spot? How could it POSSIBLY be off if I do it this way?

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You can.