Quote:
Originally Posted by Y33TREKker
Thanks! That was my jist.Quote:
Originally Posted by ipd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Y33TREKker
Thanks! That was my jist.Quote:
Originally Posted by ipd
Just adding my two cents on what happened to this site......the change in format was jarring but it was something bigger, I think.
At on point we had the option of adding advertising and we rejected it in favor of paying ourselves. This in my estimation was the straw that broke the camel's back, so to speak. Had we gone with ads, the site would have remained mainstream instead of niche.
The VX is a very different vehicle it needs mainstream interest to maintain its visibility and relevance to the world at large. Ads bring news value and in turn keep things from becoming stale. That's my advice....get "mainstream" get ads and VX.
info will grow again. ( I still have my Astral but am driving ,in summer , my 911. I love Rennlist and they have adds and you still pay
to have all features available to you. It's very mainstream there.)
How do ads make a site more mainstream? I don't understand. Maybe explain better? I apologize for being dense.
Are you talking about buying ads (for this forum) on other sites? Just to get people here, looking, and more interested in the vehicle...and prospective buyers? That doesn't sound like a bad thought...but would require MORE revenue from current scarce membership to draw interest. Maybe that's an option for the site-owner to "invest" hoping to get new traffic?
As it turns out, I am considering starting a YouTube channel called VX Overland. I have the channel, working on some artwork, have contacted a couple of graphic designers for logo production, but have not uploaded any video yet. Not just another car camping show, but I would also like to make trips to visit other VX owners and showcase different builds. Of course, I need to get my own VX running correctly first...
I kinda wish someone would offer up their "stock" vx for a test-ride with this guy:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCsq...JYTaEnf_vmTNqg
Ads make the place more mainstream because they are constantly changing.
Whatever you are personally interested would be showcased due to cookies.
It's news tailored for every site user.
It's colorful and motion pictures. It could also be VX related advertisers like Mobil1 etc. Their campaigns are constantly changing. It's dynamic.
With that said I don't know that we have the critical mass any longer to attract advertising?
I think you are misusing the word mainstream. Advertising does not make a site mainstream, mainstream sites attract advertising. Having a site dedicated to the VX, such as this one, makes it a niche market in the same way that a site dedicated to a Chevy Chevelle SS is more a niche site than one that caters to all muscles cars.
Isuzu is also no longer in the North American market for passenger vehicles of any kind, making this site even more of a niche. Yes, there is a site specifically for the Toyota Tacoma, but Toyota is major player in the North American Market. The company, the vehicles, the advertising are all mainstream because the company has pushed, and continues to push for it to be by producing vehicles in massive numbers.
I will say that this site has had more activity lately than sites that cater all Isuzu’s. Unless Isuzu re-enters the North American Market in a big way, then all Isuzu sites are niche sites, and dedicating a site to a specific Isuzu, one that only had a three year production run with extremely limited production numbers means that it will always be a niche site.
These vehicles are getting old. Very old. They are getting into accidents, breaking down, rusting, being sold off for parts. I have seen more VX’s for sale, mostly parts cars, this year than I have ever seen. I have even seen one converted into a trailer to match the VX that pulled it. Even the Unicorn is for sale. The already limited numbers continue to contract and there is no way to grow that number without making more of them. Some of us, like myself, love the VX and are trying to save as many as we can. Parts will continue to become harder to find, owners will continue to be reduced in numbers. That’s just the way it is.
So what you have now is a site that has to compete as a social media platform for a very limited number of users with other platforms such as FaceBook and sites like Planet Isuzu, a site that caters to all Isuzu’s. Advertising on the site will not change that. Advertising this site on other sites will draw new people to the site, at least initially. The question then becomes, why should they stay? What does this site offer that Planet Isuzu and FaceBook doesn’t? At the moment, not much.
Lets look at some of the pro’s and cons of this site.
Pro’s
- Lots of information available
- Generally friendly people
- Fast load times
- No advertising
Con’s
- Looks dated
- Response times to questions can take days
- Much of site is broken (How-To’s, uploading pics, etc...)
- It offers nothing that isn’t offered anywhere else on the internet
- While there is a lot of info, it is unorganized and disjointed making it difficult to sift through
The con’s need to be moved to the pro’s column. Update the look of the site and add features. Unlock the How-To section, even if it has be rebuilt from scratch. Add a member map so people can see where other members are, on a volunteer basis. Include a list of commonly replaced parts and sources (suspension comes to mind) to buy them. Sort the information in a logoical way to make it easy (or at least easier) to find. It could even be it’s own area within the site, or not, there are lots of way to do that. Find mechanics, interior restorers, shock rebuilders, auto body shops, and such and post those contacts in the forums in a coherent manner for free.
In short, make the site an indispensable hub of knowledge. This will attract users which in turn will attract advertisers. Brand the site. Once the user base starts to grow, sell Velcro patches to stick to headliners, stickers for windows, t-shirts. Organize events. Not just a user organizing a meet up, but a Vehicross.info sponsored event. Ask for a volunteer with a well equipped VX to go to an Overland Expo (east or west) and promote the site. Maybe partner with other sites, such as OverLand bound dot com who’s motto is “it doesn’t matter what you drive”. Use that.
Start small, make it a grass roots effort, because it wil have to be. Have a Vehicross.info sponsored breakfast at a restaurant that Jeep/Toyota people like to meet at. Everyone pays for their own breakfast, sure, but have a banner or flag to mark where the VX’s will be parked in the parking lot. Other people who are there and have nothing to do with a VX will talk about the “crazy looking” cars, take pictures, post on their own social media.
Basically, the only way to grow a niche market is through gorilla marketing. Just ask the fans of FireFly.
Lots of GREAT points! Probably the best though out post in a long time! Hopefully, someone at (or connected to) the forum will help organize a bit of this!
Then again, just because you can find someone to agree with you doesn't mean you've actually proven you're "jist" is accurate...especially when you refused to acknowledge that my comments DID pertain to the original "jist" of this thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by 89Vette
Thanks! That was my jist.Quote:
Originally Posted by ipd
As far as attracting mainstream advertising for the site goes, my guess would be that the numbers simply aren't there any more when it comes to the VX, and likely never will be again on a long term basis.
It's site traffic FIRST that attracts advertisers, and if the advertising isn't going to be seen by enough traffic, it simply makes no sense from a business standpoint to invest.
Sure, there have been suggestions here and there over the last few years that the VX may turn into a "future collectible", but even then that possibility is partly based on the few remaining of the low production numbers to begin with. So even if it DOES happen, the low remaining numbers of VX's would ensure that such a resurgence in popularity would only be a short term and sporadic even if values happened to occasionally skyrocket as they sometimes do.
I don't NEED to prove it..... On the second page of this thread, you turned comments into arguments. I doubt ANY reader will find your posts on page two as genuine, helpful, or dedicated toward the interests of this forum. Also....Notice I did NOT say anything about your ORIGINAL (page 1) comment because -- at that point -- it was not disruptive. On the second page, YOU went ballistic. Why? Was ANYONE picking on you? Someone (also a member of the VX Facebook page) suggested FACEBOOK seemed to lack negative "cliques". Was THAT was set you off? What DID? Ask yourself that question. ANSWER that question and you may well be on the way to PART of the solution why "cliques" are a problem FOR YOU.Quote:
Originally Posted by Y33TREKkerThen again, just because you can find someone to agree with you doesn't mean you've actually proven you're "jist" is accurate...especially when you refused to acknowledge that my comments DID pertain to the original "jist" of this thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by 89Vette
Thanks! That was my jist.Quote:
Originally Posted by ipd
Like I said...I don't need to prove anything. Let's just point readers to page two and let them decide for themselves. At this point, do you think you'll be able to "spin" what you posted so other will suddenly see your "page 2 rant" as being the "victim" of personality? Try rereading this thread after a few weeks or months. You'll figure it out.....
The "gist of my point" was: Arguments aren't necessary, desired, or relevant to the point of this thread.
Now...let's ask the question of why you NEED to be right so bad? Being right is something we all like to do...but not to the point of being openly combative....then dragging a point on and on and on and on. I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you are more sensitive than the average person. (Please consider this possibility yourself.) And, as such, you may feel the necessity to "push back" against comments you don't agree with...or feel that are unwarranted. I get that. Please try not to confuse opinions with arguments. I do NOT think "cliques" and/or "combativeness" caused problems with traffic or membership. I feel the issues are: archiving, ease-of-access (to said information), limited ownership of the vehicle, site-bugs, etc... There have ALWAYS been helpful members who were willing to post "around" anything you might be talking about.
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"Wah wah wah....":_crying:
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"Hey you, you're a POS":mad:
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"No, you're a POS and cliquish":_mecker:
What the hell is going on in here, are you sure this isn't Facebook?Quote:
"Hey you two, shut up, we're trying to fix the forum over here!":_brickwal
I've been gone for a good long time, and am just now coming back. If you're interested, I originally faded away as the forum became less and less relevant to me. I saw one too many posts asking the same old questions that had been answered a thousand times before. This forum had plenty of problems over the years, not the least of which was how information was managed, but overall, it was a good, welcoming place I will always have fond memories of.
To fund a forum, you have to have something people want. It's commerce just like anything else. Whether that is information, camaraderie, networking, or whatever. I gladly paid voluntary annual membership fees for as long as I felt I was getting that much value out of the site. Slowly that faded and I stopped coming here altogether. For me, this site had a small, but dedicated number of more hardcore offroad guys like Swordy, SPAZZ, Coachreed, AlaskaVX, Ldub, Triathlete, and many others who were pushing the VX beyond what it was intended for. Whether you are a diehard TOD zealot or not, you can't deny that their threads and mods were interesting-at least to me they were. There were also plenty of colorful individuals in here that kept the pace going. People came here due to the VX, but stayed for the great people they met. I don't see a lot of that in here anymore. It's a ghost town. Forget the bitter infighting, make efforts to stop being "cliquey" even if you think you aren't. Step down off that soapbox and think about what your VX means to you. Is it worth giving up that magic for some cheap mudslinging on the internet. It isn't for me.
From the outside looking in, this forum desperately needs threads that are actively maintained, updated, and cultivated. Back before the "FAQ" and "How To's" were mediocre, and most hadn't been updated-ever! Some things certainly don't change, but let's be honest, how many lightbulb threads do we need? A single thread, searchable, with hyperlinks(that work), and links to related threads or info would be far superior to the needle in a haystack method of information currently being practiced. The FAQ and how to sections should be more like a bunch of stickied threads in a wiki format than the largely outdated mess they were before. Stickied threads with active moderation can pull relevant or more current information from regular mainstream threads and keep a body of relevant references on hand for anyone to use-all in one easy place. That's what facebook gives that this place doesn't-instant gratification. Some new person asks a question and someone is almost always on hand with an answer. The problem is that question and answer aren't ever making it over here and that potential revolutionary fix is lost to us.
I recently made my way back to Pirate4x4 as well. It is also a specter of it's former glory. I remember one of my favorite things about that site was this author "Billavista". He single handedly authored Pirate's "tech section". He wrote engaging, information rich, articles on things people were doing and interested in, and had a way of making it approachable and entertaining. How many times could we have used a better writeup, or hell, even a video of someone doing some in depth maintenance or some task that others routinely struggled with. Wouldn't it be nice to say to some "newb": "Here you go, just go to this one section, and all your questions will be answered."? That can be a real thing. VX.info needs content and we are the providers. With the veterans of the old days gone and much of their information with them, someone has to replace it, and if you're the only ones here, that's you(and me).
Now let's all get our $h!t straight, come together, and fix the place up a bit.
While I am relatively new here, welcome back.
Well I sure as hell didn't start by calling someone a POS...and I do NOT appreciate the characterization. REREAD how delicately I tried to address his rants and get him to stop. By asking him to STOP, I was accused of being part of the problem. I was used as "fodder" to perpetuate the conflict HE apparently WANTS to start with whom ever he can. In TRYING to play moderator to this nonsensical baloney, I feel falsely accused of perpetuating HIS combativeness. Heck...I even asked for a link or post or something.....on the OFF CHANCE I said something wrong/insensitive to him in the past. Guess what? No reply....No link. Being nice apparently doesn't work with everyone.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ascinder
Trekker OBVIOUSLY holds a grudge for SOMETHING.... Apparently, no one will be able to resolve it either. I'll guess I'll tip-toe around him and say he's always right.
If you have ANY question about who started what, PLEASE look back at page two. See who started rants. Then look how nicely I replied. (Actually, quite a bit more nicely than you above, I might add.) I guess I should have ignored this guy and let him dig his own hole!
So Ascinder....Thanks for "tagging in". If the BS continues, I hope YOU can handle it....
<cheers>Quote:
Originally Posted by Ascinder
Exactly why I blocked him years ago. If I can't see the post it has absolutely no effect on me. Don't feed the trolls.Quote:
HE apparently WANTS to start with whom ever he can.
And if you'll reread my comments after a few weeks or months, you'll see that my comments have been relevant to this thread all along.Quote:
Originally Posted by 89VetteI don't NEED to prove it..... On the second page of this thread, you turned comments into arguments. I doubt ANY reader will find your posts on page two as genuine, helpful, or dedicated toward the interests of this forum. Also....Notice I did NOT say anything about your ORIGINAL (page 1) comment because -- at that point -- it was not disruptive. On the second page, YOU went ballistic. Why? Was ANYONE picking on you? Someone (also a member of the VX Facebook page) suggested FACEBOOK seemed to lack negative "cliques". Was THAT was set you off? What DID? Ask yourself that question. ANSWER that question and you may well be on the way to PART of the solution why "cliques" are a problem FOR YOU.Quote:
Originally Posted by Y33TREKkerThen again, just because you can find someone to agree with you doesn't mean you've actually proven you're "jist" is accurate...especially when you refused to acknowledge that my comments DID pertain to the original "jist" of this thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by 89Vette
Thanks! That was my jist.Quote:
Originally Posted by ipd
Like I said...I don't need to prove anything. Let's just point readers to page two and let them decide for themselves. At this point, do you think you'll be able to "spin" what you posted so other will suddenly see your "page 2 rant" as being the "victim" of personality? Try rereading this thread after a few weeks or months. You'll figure it out.....
The "gist of my point" was: Arguments aren't necessary, desired, or relevant to the point of this thread.
Now...let's ask the question of why you NEED to be right so bad? Being right is something we all like to do...but not to the point of being openly combative....then dragging a point on and on and on and on. I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you are more sensitive than the average person. (Please consider this possibility yourself.) And, as such, you may feel the necessity to "push back" against comments you don't agree with...or feel that are unwarranted. I get that. Please try not to confuse opinions with arguments. I do NOT think "cliques" and/or "combativeness" caused problems with traffic or membership. I feel the issues are: archiving, ease-of-access (to said information), limited ownership of the vehicle, site-bugs, etc... There have ALWAYS been helpful members who were willing to post "around" anything you might be talking about.
Not sure why you're so reluctant to acknowledge that...especially when you've even admitted yourself that it happens.
Convenient memory you have there bartmanS4. Much easier than admitting you were part of the problem years ago that I described though obviously.Quote:
Originally Posted by bartmanS4
By describing my comments as "rants", you've not necessarily contributed to solving said problem at all though have you. (rhetorical)Quote:
Originally Posted by 89VetteWell I sure as hell didn't start by calling someone a POS...and I do NOT appreciate the characterization. REREAD how delicately I tried to address his rants and get him to stop. By asking him to STOP, I was accused of being part of the problem. I was used as "fodder" to perpetuate the conflict HE apparently WANTS to start with whom ever he can. In TRYING to play moderator to this nonsensical baloney, I feel falsely accused of perpetuating HIS combativeness. Heck...I even asked for a link or post or something.....on the OFF CHANCE I said something wrong/insensitive to him in the past. Guess what? No reply....No link. Being nice apparently doesn't work with everyone.
Trekker OBVIOUSLY holds a grudge for SOMETHING.... Apparently, no one will be able to resolve it either. I'll guess I'll tip-toe around him and say he's always right.
If you have ANY question about who started what, PLEASE look back at page two. See who started rants. Then look how nicely I replied. (Actually, quite a bit more nicely than you above, I might add.) I guess I should have ignored this guy and let him dig his own hole!
So Ascinder....Thanks for "tagging in". If the BS continues, I hope YOU can handle it....
<cheers>Quote:
Originally Posted by Ascinder
I understand that you may not have wanted to be a part of calling out the original problem (it wasn't my first choice either), but because you chose to remain silent offers you no right whatsoever to try to hold me solely accountable now.
That the problem was so pervasive is why there were so many who showed up in this thread who have ALSO tried to hold me solely accountable, but I can assure you that there were many who agreed with ME back then, THEY didn't want to bother getting involved either because they saw all of the BS comments coming from the instigators I was calling out, and as a result simply commended me for my efforts via private messaging.
Two sides to every story.
Well thank you for THAT anyway. :winko:Quote:
Originally Posted by Ascinder
As far as ideas for making things more easily searchable if the database is ever restored, an index of VX specific terms would be helpful, because even when you had a relative idea of what you were looking for, if you didn't know the forum specific nomenclature that all of the site regulars used to identify certain VX parts, procedures, etc, you may as well have been throwing a dart in the dark when it came to "the search function being your friend".
I have not been contributing much lately as we have basically been working 2 full time jobs getting our house ready to sell so we can move to Olathe CO. We will have a much more relaxed life style, close to great wheeling and more time for wheeling and social interaction with friends and the forum too.
I will make more effort to check the forum and contribute more as soon as I get my Denver house sold. :yesgray:
Well "good job!" then. I wish your efforts were even better....so they wouldn't have come up again HERE. My contribution to "solving said problem" is to get over whatever's bothering you from the past. With the reading I did (in attempts to understand your demeanor), it would seem the issue is so old that it doesn't make sense to bring it up. With further research, I stick with my point that "conflict" shouldn't have been presented an "issue" in this thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by Y33TREKker
Actually, in doing so, please consider that you are actually perpetuating your own problem. If that doesn't help you, I'm sorry. I took some time to read through your posts and understand your complaint. I see why you got upset at times. I also see the when you aggravated "the problem". It's completely unreasonable to suggest I tell you/them what should have happened differently. My best advice is to ask you to "get over it". It's water WELL under the bridge.
Finally, FWIW, I was am not a member who has conflicted with you in the past. You are obviously so defensive about the past, it's makes you too eager to bring it up again...and even blame those (like me) who played no part. I believe you've gotten so defensive that it affects the way you deal with people in the present...and possibly the future. If you're looking for more moderation, maybe we (or someone) can email Scott. Considering that I saw him trying to solve the re-direct problem, it appears he's not totally absent.
<cheers>
I am not going to take sides in this debate Except to say, that fact that this thread hasn’t been locked yet shows newer members, like myself, just how indifferent the mods are about actually running this site.
When I first came to this site, I was literally the first post in over a month, and by posting, and not expecting any replies, a few more people started to post, then a few more. I think we are what? Six or seven now? Or at least we were until this thread blew up.
Now? Now I still post updates on my build thread, and I will continue to do so as loing as the site is active. There have been a couple of mentions of VX’s for sale or being parted out that the OP’s have stopped responding to.
Seriously, who want’s to come to a sight to see a rehash of years old arguments? This thread should have been locked a log time ago. But it isn’t, because the mods can’t be bothered to run the site. Even the FileStore phishing site is still attached to this site. There is no moderation, and no control by the mods or by the members. This behavior in thread is disgusting.
Personally I don’t give a damn who did what to whom or when they did it. I really don’t. But I can see why the FB page is more active than this site, it really isn’t difficult to see that at all.
I vowed to myself early on that I wasn't going to let my presence on this site become an epeen measuring contest like I might be accused of elsewhere. There's scant few here as it is, no need to isolate myself from the community. I'll save my personal views for elsewhere.
You're of course still free to "believe" whatever you like about what happened in the past, and in this thread too, but you choosing to believe what you want doesn't automatically render what I've said about what happened in the past, or about you in this thread, invalid.Quote:
Originally Posted by 89VetteWell "good job!" then. I wish your efforts were even better....so they wouldn't have come up again HERE. My contribution to "solving said problem" is to get over whatever's bothering you from the past. With the reading I did (in attempts to understand your demeanor), it would seem the issue is so old that it doesn't make sense to bring it up. With further research, I stick with my point that "conflict" shouldn't have been presented an "issue" in this thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by Y33TREKker
Actually, in doing so, please consider that you are actually perpetuating your own problem. If that doesn't help you, I'm sorry. I took some time to read through your posts and understand your complaint. I see why you got upset at times. I also see the when you aggravated "the problem". It's completely unreasonable to suggest I tell you/them what should have happened differently. My best advice is to ask you to "get over it". It's water WELL under the bridge.
Finally, FWIW, I was am not a member who has conflicted with you in the past. You are obviously so defensive about the past, it's makes you too eager to bring it up again...and even blame those (like me) who played no part. I believe you've gotten so defensive that it affects the way you deal with people in the present...and possibly the future. If you're looking for more moderation, maybe we (or someone) can email Scott. Considering that I saw him trying to solve the re-direct problem, it appears he's not totally absent.
<cheers>
You yourself said you chose to not get involved in the past, which was fine, but as far as I could tell while reading this thread, no one twisted your arm to get involved with what I was bringing up here, so you have no one to blame but yourself for the consequences and not "letting it go" here when after said you were going to.
In the end, our goals are the same, to make this site a better place to visit. You "believe" that would be best achieved with site content, while I on the other hand believe that calling out the clique'ish/childish behavior that many have acknowledged on this site addresses a message boards' problems on a more human level.
I'll leave it to each person reading this to decide for themselves which THEY feel is the more important aspect of an internet message board.
If you didn't give a damn, why did you have to add your two cents regarding a past you know nothing about?Quote:
Originally Posted by Thelgord
Can't have it both ways.
You are a troll.