Need Help... CV/axle question

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Originally Posted by 89Vette

How does that work? I picture it as the inside of a half-sphere with grooves for the opposite "knuckle". If the boot rips and it's contaminated, doesn't that cause scarring/pitting? How would you "machine" that out?

:confused:

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Sorry, must have totally missed this earlier.

You are right. When my boot tore and I didn't replace it relatively quickly, junk got into the green cup and as things moved around without grease the green cup got pitted and scarred. The green cup is just that; it's a straight walled "cup" that has grooves in the walls. Can't think of the best way to put this, but the grooves run from the bottom of the cup up to the lip of the cup. When everything is together in the VX the cup lays on it's side so the grooves run horizontal (parallel to the ground). The balls of the CV joint them seat into the grooves so that they can move in and out (parallel to the ground), but can't go anywhere else. As the cup rotates the balls must rotate with it because they are in the grooves, and that is what transfers power to the wheels. Does that may any sense?

Bart has a great write-up with pictures, and as "they" say; picture are worth a.....you get it:
http://www.vehicross.info/forums/showthread.php?t=21040

Like Billy (Triathlete) said, the front axle was removed and sent to a machine shop where they welded up/ filled in any of the pits or scars and then re-machined everything back into spec.

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Originally Posted by MSHardeman

Like Billy (Triathlete) said, the front axle was removed and sent to a machine shop where they welded up/ filled in any of the pits or scars and then re-machined everything back into spec.

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I had looked at the forum's reference on the subject...which were good enough (great enough) for me to visual the units. I just couldn't figure how they go in and "de-scar" the cups.

Interesting...

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Originally Posted by SilverBullet75

Here is the NAPA replacement axle.
This is the part that is "identical" from left to right:
http://ppl.ug/qR4uY0Yc2kQ/

These are the green cups that the bare CV portion of the above axles go into:
http://ppl.ug/TrAWAsX9mVc/
http://ppl.ug/kIf9EE7UgFE/

The green cups have, on one side, a long shaft (the part that is hard to find/buy) attached to it. On the other side, is a green cup that has the short shaft attached to it (available at stores).
Both of these shafts are located inside the differential.

Hope this helps...
---JIM---

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I guess popoplug (ppl) isn't a good a site as photobucket? The pics are gone from these links...Expired or Storage filled up?

No, Pogoplug is great. I took the pics down a while ago.

Note: after months of having the Napa shafts on, I don't recommend them unless your cups are replaced as well.
Bad vibration since day 1.

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Originally Posted by SilverBullet75

No, Pogoplug is great. I took the pics down a while ago.

Note: after months of having the Napa shafts on, I don't recommend them unless your cups are replaced as well.
Bad vibration since day 1.

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That's too bad. NAPA said they use A1 Cardone's. I guess EMPI's really are better? I'm guessing the green cup end didn't fit tight or something? Otherwise, it doesn't seem like they'd cause vibration.... Hmmm....

BTW...I thought that picture of the halfshaft was the key to my understanding in that thread. I always think it's unfortunate to kill picture links.

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Originally Posted by Triathlete

For those curious...I enquired at the local Isuzu dealer the cost of replacing both shafts (they would use oem) and it was $1600!.

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I often do that just to see how much I have saved,... though some job's I have done has caused me to ask myself if it was really worth all of the agro

Copy that Rowhard!

Here's a good question....How do you slide the six ball bearings into the green cup without dropping the balls out of the retainer ring?

Haven't done it yet, but it seems like a tricky one.

The grease will hold them in.

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Originally Posted by Triathlete

The grease will hold them in.

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Thanks, that's what I hoped. Though I'm assuming you have to be careful and hit the grooves in the cup w/o jarring the bearing from the retainer.

Nah, the grease is thick and holds them in pretty good. Don't need to be overly gentle.

They also kinda "click" into the ball cage. Depending on wear, they shouldn't fall out too much.

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Originally Posted by SilverBullet75

Note: after months of having the Napa shafts on, I don't recommend them unless your cups are replaced as well.
Bad vibration since day 1.

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Ok, changing my opinion 180 degrees on the NAPA shafts!

I just installed the HD torsion bars from Indy4x, and also lowered the front by 1 inch.
Lowering plus 2 inches of Diff Drop put the front shafts back to horizontal/stock angles!

I turned the TOD on today (I have an on/off switch). All is fixed! I had no clacking, vibration... nada!

Back in business.

So, lesson learned...
The shafts need to be as horizontal as possible in order for the balls to ride in the cups properly.

Anyone have the clacking issue on stock shafts while lifted?

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Originally Posted by SilverBullet75

Ok, changing my opinion 180 degrees on the NAPA shafts!

So, lesson learned...

The shafts need to be as horizontal as possible in order for the balls to ride in the cups properly.

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I kinda wondered....because I found out that NAPA uses A1-Cardone for their stock. While EMPI is touted as better (bigger balls?), I didn't think anyone had discredited the Cardone stuff as viable.

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Originally Posted by 89Vette

While EMPI is touted as better (bigger balls?),

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One would certainly hope...:yesgray:.:thumbup:.:laughing:

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Originally Posted by SilverBullet75

Anyone have the clacking issue on stock shafts while lifted?

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Been lifted 2-1/2 to 3 inches for the past three or four years with stock shafts and no diff drop. Never had a clacking issue at all.

I swapped out my green cups and CV shafts with a lower mileage stock VX's OEM stuff and I had clicking while turning and it was starting to bind at speed as well and was causing the TOD to malfunction at 3.5-4" of lift (with diff drop brackets), but when I went back down to 2.5" of lift (with diff drop brackets) I had no more clicking while turning.

I'm getting ready to redo both halfshafts. (Both outer CV boots have been ripped for a couple of years (10k miles). So, I'm trying to gather/locate everything I need.

I have two Empi halfshafts and spent some time looking for:

• F rotors/pads (R rotors/pads too) considering slotted
• F inner/outer bearings
• wheel bearing seal and (rear) knuckle seal.

I'm also wondering about whether the inner cup bands will need to be replaced. If so, what to use? (They don't come with the halfshafts, right?)

Anything else I'm not thinking of?

At this point in time, I'm planning on having Inland Truck do the work. They estimated $225/side after seeing right-ups provided from this great website! (Considering a move in residence and need for pituitary surgery asap,,,I'm thinking I should get this done for winter...and just in case.)

Thanks to everyone,
89V


If it matters, my mileage is 87k.

Vette,

The wear points are the inner & outer races & the bearings themselves. The cage shouldn't wear but if the joint has been running dry for a significant time then it could have wear as well. I'm not familiar with the Empi shafts so I don't know what OEM parts they are compatable with.

Good luck with your surgery & relocation. A buddy of mine at work had similar surgery a few years ago with a quick recovery & no adverse effects. IIRC he had a small tumor on his pituitary gland.

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Originally Posted by tom4bren

Vette,

The wear points are the inner & outer races & the bearings themselves. The cage shouldn't wear but if the joint has been running dry for a significant time then it could have wear as well. I'm not familiar with the Empi shafts so I don't know what OEM parts they are compatable with.

Good luck with your surgery & relocation. A buddy of mine at work had similar surgery a few years ago with a quick recovery & no adverse effects. IIRC he had a small tumor on his pituitary gland.

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Recently, in another thread, I mentioned my confusion about the EMPI shafts having different size balls (bearings) than stock. This didn't seem possible/likely since they need to correctly mate to the "receiving end" of the joint. If not, I can't see how they wouldn't pop and wear inappropriately.

I'm expecting the Empi's to bolt right in...and be compatible with OEM parts.

I hadn't thought of anything like a race but I don't think any bearings are bad. Don't hear any of that type of noise anyway. I just want to have them on hand for the mechanic. And, for jobs like this, you always wonder if a new bearing race (along with any other reasonably-priced parts aren't better replaced during the operation.

Speaking of operation,,,my tumer is getting pretty big. I think doctors let it go too long as it's over an 1" in diameter. Not looking forward to it...but know it's gotta be done. I appreciate the vote of confidence though!

BTW, if the kit did not come with the bands for the boots, the shop should either have some on hand or be able to get them. As an alternative, I used heavy duty zip ties on mine for 2 years with no problem.

Either pick up or tell the shop that you want synthetic grease when they assemble the CV. Marine grease would be even mo betta.

This might help you locate some of the parts you're looking for:

The new (Chinese) axles are ridiculously cheap! They basically put axle rebuilders out of business… It has been my experience that all of those axles are the same, regardless of where you get them (Ebay, AutoZone, or NAPA).

In my DSM racing world, we put out 2-4 times more power (than OEM) and yet these cheap axles seem to do just fine. After several years of using them, I must say that they appear to be a suitable replacement for OEM. In fact, they seem to be MORE reliable than the old, rebuild axles from Autozone.

Whenever possible, I prefer OEM. But OEM is hundreds of $$$, so they are not very practical. An alternative is to replace the boots on factory axles (assuming that the CV joints aren’t yet ruined). The problem is that replacement NAPA boots are $46 per axle and there is still a chance that joint are bad, where as you can buy a PAIR of new Chinese axles for $100 on Ebay.

I think that will buy the new axles, but save the old OEM units for a possible feature rebuild.

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Originally Posted by tom4bren

BTW, if the kit did not come with the bands for the boots, the shop should either have some on hand or be able to get them. As an alternative, I used heavy duty zip ties on mine for 2 years with no problem.

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Nice, I use zip ties too. I use two smaller (width) zip ties per one metal band.

Haven't had any issues and they're much easier to install.

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Originally Posted by VXorado

Nice, I use zip ties too. I use two smaller (width) zip ties per one metal band.

Haven't had any issues and they're much easier to install.

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Thanks for refreshing my rememory. The HD zipties were too wide & didn't stay in place so I ended up using ordinary grade zipties instead & they worked much mo betta.