need advice- our center bore is not 108mm

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Originally Posted by Y33TREKker

In my opinion though, all that will still depend on which tires he plans to use with the new wheels. If it's going to be the Grabbers again (as displayed in his gallery), zero vibration is always going to be difficult to achieve regardless of rim choice.

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Nope, as originally depicted in your original statement-- you said Grabber's (as displayed in his (DJVX) gallery); which if you look in DJVX's gallery is the Grabber AT2. Consequently, you essentially referred the Grabber AT2 specifically. I'm just calling an Ace-n-Ace and a Spade-a-Spade. You made a generalized comment that the Grabber AT2 in an inferior tire that has a "vibration issue regardless of rim choice" and with which you have absolutely no personal experience with, and THAT is what I have an issue with. Then, you keep trying to back-pedal your way out in your subsequent postings with your double-talk, but all you end of doing is digging yourself a bigger hole (you're beginning to sound like Obama). Yes, let's drop the issue because it is you that has a clouded perception. Peace Out.

:bgwb:

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Originally Posted by Riff Raff

Nope, as originally depicted...

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This is ridiculous.

If it's just me with the clouded perception, then how are you explaining LDubs', Marlins', and VX Kats' responses to yourself?

Talk to me again when you reach China in that hole of yours.

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Originally Posted by Y33TREKker

Talk to me again when you reach China in that hole of yours.

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Dig baby dig....
:laugho:

Riff, do you need to retake reading comprehension? This is really retarded. He wasn't referring to Grabbers being inferior, he was using them as an example because all-terrain/mud-terrain and other offroad tires are GENERALLY more difficult to keep in balance etc than say your standard Camry tire. I quoted for truth here:

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Originally Posted by Y33TREKker

In my opinion though, all that will still depend on which tires he plans to use with the new wheels. If it's going to be the Grabbers again (as displayed in his gallery), zero vibration is always going to be difficult to achieve regardless of rim choice.

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Originally Posted by Riff Raff

Huh??? What makes you say that??? What is wrong with the Grabber AT2's and is that what you have??? Please explain!!!:confused:

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Originally Posted by Y33TREKker

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Originally Posted by etlsport

Probably because all terrain tires don't balance well and will pretty much always be noisy when compared to an ht, st or apt tire

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:yesgray:

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Originally Posted by etlsport

...of course this doesnt apply to guys who go with 22s or larger on their trucks

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Unless they also mount an off-road or all-terrain sort of tire too.

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From my reading, he's agreeing with etlsport's comments and not saying the Grabber in general. You really should take a chill pill, you sound like someone just pushed your kid down.

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Originally Posted by RamAirZ

...He wasn't referring to Grabbers being inferior, he was using them as an example because all-terrain/mud-terrain and other offroad tires are GENERALLY more difficult to keep in balance etc than say your standard Camry tire. I quoted for truth here:...

From my reading, he's agreeing with etlsport's comments and not saying the Grabber in general.

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I've already tried that.

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Originally Posted by Y33TREKker

No need to get defensive. How can it be considered a fail when all I was saying is that larger off-road tires are by design not meant to be balance-able to the same degree as low-profile high-performance tires?

It seems you are simply taking my statements personally as calling into question your choice of tire when that isn't the case. If you're happy with your choice and have had good luck with the Grabbers, great, but that doesn't mean what I've said about off-road/large-lugged tires is incorrect.

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But thank you just the same. Maybe second time will be the charm?

And while not exactly the same, it also just occurred to me that years ago I DID run a set of General All-Terrains on a 4X4 I used to own.

Something I know for a fact is that the General All-Terrains I had on that 4X4 did not balance as well on those lug-centric wheels as the 18" General Sport Contact low-profile performance tires I currently have on the 18" hub-centric wheels on my car.

How's that for personal experience? :p Not to mention having a brother-in-law who works for General Tire and can get some pretty good discounts on tires. ;)

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Originally Posted by Riff Raff

...You made a generalized comment that the Grabber AT2 in an inferior tire that has a "vibration issue regardless of rim choice" and with which you have absolutely no personal experience with, and THAT is what I have an issue with.

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So it would seem there should now be no issue at all.

Double post - so deleted.

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Originally Posted by tom4bren

I thought hub centric wheels went the way of the DoDo bird.

The only benefit that I've read for hub centric wheels is that they cut down on vibration. IMHO, that's total BS.

How can centering the wheel on a circle half the diameter cut down on vibration?

Hub centric was the way to go back in Grandpa's day because the technology just wasn't there to accurately and reliably drill out the lug holes on rims.

As a matter of fact, I believe that the hub is no longer even held to a tight enough tolerance during manufacture to get any of the benefit of using a hub centric rim. Sure, aftermarket companies do sell spacers to fill in any gap between the center bore and the hub ... made of soft plastic or aluminum. How is that gonna help with vibration?

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The VX is hub centric, and it isn't that old....yet. I would think Isuzu did it for a good reason. That's all.

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Originally Posted by tom4bren

Why?

There's been a lot of talk about the pro's & con's but you never stated what problem you are experiencing that started this whole discussion.

Or

Is "I care" just a Luke Skywalker quote.

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I wanted to verify our specific bore size so I could look for wheels that have the same OEM center bore.
Thanks again for the input everyone, but.....I might just get some wheel adapters.I hear there a nice safe alternative :rotate: Uh oh...That could blow up this place :jump:

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Originally Posted by djvx

The VX is hub centric, and it isn't that old....yet. I would think Isuzu did it for a good reason. That's all.

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Actually I don't think it is. If you have hub centric rims, you will NOT have conical lug nuts. I think the factory rims are just a relatively close fit to the hub which is not neccesarily hub centric. That's all I've got to say about that.

I have had metal hub centric rings made for me in the past to specific wheels.

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Originally Posted by tom4bren

...If you have hub centric rims, you will NOT have conical lug nuts.

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I guess I'd have to know exactly what you mean by "conical", because the hubcentric wheels on my car use a lugnut/wheel-seat arrangement that incorporate a slanted seat angle that could be considered conical.

our vx lugnuts are conical, they have a cone shape to them. take a 2004 ford F250 for example, they have lug nuts that are flat on the bottom, which means those wheels would be hub centric

http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/8407/nuts.gif

Agreed ^

The only problem that larger than our 100mm bore presents is in the aligning process when you first are trying to get the first few lugs going on straight.

I had custom rims cut to my specs for the VX and I thought it was 108mm, but when I put them on I measured and found out that was WAY off, so it just means that it is harder for me to line up the first couple of lugs when reinstalling. Centerbore doesn't matter as long as the lug pattern is the same and the hubs fit, the lugs when tightened correctly (each one a little at a time) will align everything perfectly every time.

Well Little Beast is proof that the mis-information about our center bore being 108mm did affect someone. Granted the rims still worked out afterall. I think someone should change the tech info on the "Post of All Rims thread" to 100mm. With a note that 108mm is a proven workable sizing option.

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Originally Posted by Y33TREKker

I guess I'd have to know exactly what you mean by "conical", because the hubcentric wheels on my car use a lugnut/wheel-seat arrangement that incorporate a slanted seat angle that could be considered conical.

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My point is this:

If your rim is centered by the hub AND by the lugs the two processes will work against each other unless VERY tight tolerences are held during manufacture.

If you were to purchase a true hub centric rim (assuming that our hub was designed for it, which I doubt) and installed it using lug nuts that are designed to also center the rim. The conical nuts would try to adjust what the hub has already aligned. One of two things will happen (prolly #2)

1. The hub or the centerbore of the rim will deform to allow the rim to center somewhere between where the hub had it & where the lugs want to put it. Congratulations, you've just violated the hub centric design that you wanted so badly.

2. The lug nuts won't tighten properly and will eventually vibrate loose. Nobody wins in that situation.

Like I said in an earlier post, in all likelihood our factory rims are lug centric & just happen to have a fairly tight fit to the hub but are not hub centric.