Your winch mount is still nice, Beau. It's still hidden and doesn't look awkward or out of place....Quote:
Originally Posted by Ascinder
Bart
Printable View
Your winch mount is still nice, Beau. It's still hidden and doesn't look awkward or out of place....Quote:
Originally Posted by Ascinder
Bart
Any news? Can't wait :p
They've been pretty busy, waiting for a call back today. Hopefully he calls back today :laughing:
Funny, I was going to hunt for this thread today and ask the same thing!:bwgy:Quote:
Originally Posted by Hide
Let us know what you hear RAZ!:yesy: And thanks for spearheading this.:_beer:
No problem guys, I've been bugging Craig about it haha. Talked to him today, he didn't have an updates on the "engineering" process yet, the guy was out of the office today, hopefully should hear something tomorrow
Talked to Sean today, he's their engineer guy. He's gonna come up with a proposal for me today or tomorrow, it should have 2 options and some ballpark prices. One option will be a full replacement, basically bulletproof axle warrantied just like the other products they offer. This option being the most expensive. The other option he is working on is some upgraded internals for our current setups, so basically the solid center shaft and inner/outer stubs would be retained by the "joints" themselves would be upgraded. This wouldn't fall under there lifetime warranty I don't think but would be alot more cost effective. In this option it would test the strength of the rest of the stock CV parts (the inner/outer stubs and center bar) so that would be why it doesn't fall under the full warranty, but I think they would warranty the parts that they upgrade. How does this sound to you guys? He should be working on a group buy pricing too.
So with option 1 you would get the added slip joint but with option 2 you would not?
I think I'll start saving my 'ching' & go for option 1.
Did I get that right (see attached picture)?
sorta, not sure if we would use the slip shaft, he's working on the design and should be back to me today or tomorrow, but essentially yes. The cost would go down alot for option 2 because the fab time for making the replacement for the green cup and all new stub axles plus the slip shaft if used would add ALOT, figured I'd throw both options out there.
Do you think he can make both options available for us? Option 1 is for those hardcore off-roaders on here and option 2 for the part time off-roaders on here?
I don't think that would be an issue, I'll double check with him when I get his proposal.
This is where we really need input from some of the old members who've broken CVs in the past. Does anyone know what part(s)of the CVs are actually failing? I always assumed the shafts themselves were snapping.
Ram,
Can you also get them to quote us for just the CV boots?
Ascinder,
AFAIK LittleBeast and Marlin are the only ones who have experienced a catastrophic failure. Everyone else has just done the replacement due to torn boots and/or clicking noise. My guess is that the typical failure sequence is as follows:
1. torn boot allowing lubricants to escape and abrasives to enter the CV joint.
2. the inner (star) and outer (green cup) races become worn causing a divet that the balls will jump in and out of during articulation - clicking sound.
3. those divets become so pronounced that the balls actually bind causing the inner race to fracture
4. once the inner race fractures, the longitudinal slip will probably be adequate that it pops the retaining clip loose and the whole assembly falls out.
5. as soon as one end breaks free, the other CV will 'explode' as well.
This is all conjecture on my part of course since I've never actually been inside a CV when it fails.
Alan (bigmeatvx) exploded his at Moab. He said his cage exploded if I recall correctly
I have broken a couple of outer joints (I have been told this is the most common breakage point when wheeling) and in one case I exploded the "cup" on the inner joint. The inner broke during a high speed hill climb in the snow...full throttle, lots of wheelspin, and then the wheel suddenly found traction. Boom.
I have never snapped any portion of the three shafts that make up a CV axle. I think the CV joints will go long before the shafts will shear.
I know of knowone personally that has broken the shafts themselves. All the failures I know of have been the cages exploding.
As far as the slip shaft, I see no need for it unless you have come up with a suspention mod that allows a lot more up/down arrticulation than what our stock suspention will allow (think trophy truck like 22 inch plus of travel). The green cup allows the balls/cage to move about 3 inches to keep the length in ckeck.
I really like the option of being able to replace the ball/cage with a heavy duty option...that would be the route I would be interested in. I have 2 factory and 3 Empi shafts that I can use! The cage removes with a lock ring...pretty east to do.:yesy:
And again thanks to all that are getting this rolling
True Billy, the slip shaft isn't absolutely needed but I'm not sure that the green cup (outer race) provides 3" movement.
The other thing to consider is that it's not just the inner race that gets worn. The outer race wears out at the same rate. If you need to replace your CVs due to wear, it would be best to replace the green cup as well.
Broke the shaft x2, separate trail runs....nice to meet you Billy:)Quote:
Originally Posted by Triathlete
As for now, I am good with the OEM sets, I have 5 of em in the garage:)
But I would be interested in some manly boots, the mecatech ripped after a few weeks, the OEM ones were not ripped when I replaced em:flame:
Where those OEM shafts you broke? Don't think they were!:bwgy: I was refering to the OEM shafts.
T4B..the green cup supplies a lot of in/out movement, may not be 3 inches but it is close. As far as replacing the green cups...unless you are prepared to disassemble your diff, not going to happen. They are held in place with lock rings inside the diff.:yesy::(
Billy, You do not need to dissasemble the diff to get out the stub axles...It is a real pain in the ***** though...you need a tiny pair of snap ring pliers to get the two snap rings and they slide right out after removing the 4 bolts holding the bracket to the axle housing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Triathlete
.................................................. ...............................................
As far as the HD axles...I/We looked into it years ago and it was $$$$ (as did Swordy and Grampa Bob and others)...but mabey things have changed.???
I have broken 3-5 CVs over the years...and most were in the cage-star area...although at least one damaged or even split the green cup in two...and one broke an outer stub inside the hub.
the biggest two problem areas (beyond the obvious cages) are the smallish 17 spline stub axles (necked down to .9" in some areas!!!), both in the diff side, and at the outer hub-side.
I have spent much time and research into this....Even if you went to a superior material like heat reated 300M, you nwould still only gain a marginal amount of strength (10-20%) and the diameter of the spindle is too small to upgrade the axle size. On the diff side, the guys at ARB could make a modified 10 bolt diff with larger side gears (like 30 spline Super 30), and larger carrier bearings, but this would be pricey custom work and require your diff 3rd member to be machined for the lager bearrings.:yeso:
And after all that work and money, you still would be limited by the diameter of the outer stub axle.:mady2:
That is why I have resorted to a project upgrading the whole front end of my VX...to Dana 44 center section, with Toyota 30 spline axles (a full 1.31" dia. almost 50% stronger than the isuzu), CVs and larger brakes and larger Land Cruiser hubs and spindle and berrings....the project is not yet complete though, as I am still gathering all the needed parts...
Keep us posted on the axles and CVs.....
If you don't mind me asking, how far along are you. I am stuck right now trying to cut off the A-arm, shock, and steering brackets. I'm about to buy a plasma cutter and go to town. Tried an angle grinder with a cutoff disc and a sawzall and could only get so far. The brackets are too close together to get into the tight corners. I'm going to run a stock dana 60 for now, then upgrade to the RCV60 shafts if I start getting close to breaking anything. :hj:Quote:
That is why I have resorted to a project upgrading the whole front end of my VX...to Dana 44 center section, with Toyota 30 spline axles (a full 1.31" dia. almost 50% stronger than the isuzu), CVs and larger brakes and larger Land Cruiser hubs and spindle and berrings....the project is not yet complete though, as I am still gathering all the needed parts...
Yes my cage (that holds the balls in place) blew in half as well, I have pictures around here somewhere.....Quote:
Originally Posted by RamAirZ
I think that is what Billy was refering to. You need to basically drop your diff to slid shafts out, you do have to remove the diff brackets, which includes the 4 bolts you are referencing and the 2 bolts that hold the diff bracket to the frame per side. Then they slide out, but not before your diff is sitting on the floor :) This is the part that most people do not want to do, so by "dissassemble the diff" I think he meant drop it out of the VX, which yes you have to do.Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMeatVX
I NEVER have had to drop my diff to the ground, to get the stubb axles out, EVER...in fact, I say, it would be a struggle to get the diff out before removing the axle shafts.Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleBeast
It can be done with the diff still hanging in the VX....a pry-bar and patience is needed though.
Ascinder,
I've got the dana 44 center section, the Toyota hubs and brakes...The CV shafts are next on my list...this has been on hold for the last month though...
Is it too late to talk you out of SAS?:winky:
Waaayyyy too late, lol. I've already removed almost everything from the VX and I've hacked most of the way through those A-arms brackets. Also, there is no way in hell CVs are going to hold up against 500hp and 37" tires. I'd say I'm fairly well committed at this point to the SAS.
Haha, yeah my point is we are all talking about the same thing just using different words. I know what you mean by"diff still hanging in the VX", but you still have to remove the 4 bolts holding on the bracket that mounts the diff to the frame, and probably support the diff with a jack or stands or something while it is "hanging in there", so you basically are removing the diff from its original position, and is probably less hassle to go ahead and remove it. Yes you have to remove at least one of the axle halfs before removing the diff. But I might try your crow bar method next time, seems like fun :)Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMeatVX
While the stockers, or even my toyota ones wouldn't hold up to 500HP,Quote:
Originally Posted by Ascinder
934.5 CVs CAN and DO take that HP and tire size!!!! the axle bars are 1.5" 35 slpine just like a dana 60!!!:yeso: And they even have larger ones...series 50??? avail.....:yesy: PRO 4 trucks use these....
[QUOTE=BigMeatVX;206758]
934.5 CVs CAN and DO take that HP and tire size!!!![QUOTE]
If only we could get some 934.5 CV's in the VX :(
Yep, just take a look at Shannon Campbells IFS King of the Hammers rig.:yesy:Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMeatVX
Yeah, but try finding a replacement set of those at the junkyard. For the $250 I spent for the whole D60, I'm pretty sure for as rarely as I'll break shafts that it'll be more cost effective long run. Plus I can regear it to just about anything and there's a wide variety of lockers available. I have just never heard of that kind of stuff with any of the IFS out there that isn't totally high dollar custom made. Add to that the fact that my solid axle route is way more hydraulic steering friendly, and probably articulates waaayy more, plus more weight down low vs. IFS and I'm sold on it.
I was just throwing that out there...believe me, if I had the $$$ there would already be a solid axle under mine!
Updates? With Bigmeat's new super flexy IFS, I'd think people would really start wanting these stronger CV's. I don't how many people watched the videos in his thread, but those A-arm angles are going to eat stock CV's for breakfast. I love that I'm finally seeing some decent hardcore parts becoming available for the VX. Even if it's a little too late for me:bwgy:
lol I need to give craig a call again on monday and see what's going on with it.
Thats what I was thinking, talking with Joe D about it. Definitely gotta stay out of the skinny pedal if you are flexed out...Plus, looking how much flex he gets, gonna have to remove the inner liners, and perhaps trim the outer cladding...no big deal for me, but for some that is probably a deal breaker, although if you want to keep your VX pretty, this kit kind of defeats the purpose. This would be for an actual trail truck, not a once a year, Tour De Desert truck. Not downing those folks, but to spend that much money and time, for a mod that is gonna require some work to make it effective...I went ahead and did the ball joint flip, low pro bump stops(that really aren't any smaller than the factory stops), got the diff drop brackets in the truck...and I have several spare OEM CVs, so maybe if this EMPI deal goes through, I may liquidate all my spares, and use that as money toward the super fancy CVs. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Ascinder
I would love to have stronger CVs my VX. Mine were the destroyed in Moab when the boots ripped, all the grease fell out and the bearings slowly wore the inner cup into oblivion with metal on metal contact. I installed new CVs but they still click/vibrate because I didn't replace the inner cup. These stronger CVs look to be a permanent fix to these problems
Pending the cost of these new CVs, (over 1K I would imagine) I will have 6 OEM CVs available for purchase. I will put new boots on em and everything. I may be able to work out a deal where I can sell all of my extras and cover the cost of a pair of 1K CVs? I know the OEM CVs are listed at 750 and 950 on Isuzu parts,they say the drivers and passenger are different? Not that I am aware of? I have two sets from a VX, one pair with the cups, never wheeled. My set, have been wheeled, but well taken care of, no clicks or slop and what not. This may be doable....waiting on price...
I was thinking about this a little, and I suspect having the weight balanced between the two CVs will somewhat offset the angle effect on CV longevity. I have broken a couple of CVs where one side was trying to climb a ledge or log by itself. With the "SFIFS", the loads are going to be much more balanced L/R (within the limits of IFS travel at least) so there is good chance that the other side will be helping too in that scenario.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ascinder
But we'll see what happens...you may be right.
Yeah, from a weight distribution standpoint, it will certainly reduce breakages, but kind of what I was referring to is that generally when people start putting performance oriented stuff like this in, the tendency is to lift as well, they kind of go hand in hand. I know when mine was lifted pretty high like that, the cvs were seeing some pretty steep angles. When that happens you get a lot of end-range play. What I mean is that the balls and cups are sitting where they are not used to being and at the limits of their allowable travel I think that's where a lot of people are hearing the clicking. If you envision the insides of a cv at a high angle, the cages are also at an angle and so every time the shaft turns one revolution, the balls must travel all the way back and forth in the cup. I think this is the clicking people hear. Obviously all this travel is going to cause more wear and tear vs stock which only travel a small amount and then only when there's any suspension travel. That's the reason I was interested in the cvs that have a splints center shaft that allows them to self lengthen and shorten. It would take away some of the forces present when the suspension cycles. And instead of bottoming out the cages in the cups, would let them ride where they're most "comfortable".
P.S.: 1000th post ftw!!
That's a shame if it does cost that much, even for those of us "Tour de Desert"/Beach folks (;)) I would much prefer to invest a little ching for a much more durable end product (a mild lift is something I'd like to do in the future). But as you said if it costs that much you may as well keep cycling through OEM crap. :thumbdn:Quote:
Originally Posted by Marlin
Ascinder is 100% right. But rather than a negative, I see the moving of the balls as evening the wear throughout the tulip fitting:smack: (I found out today that tulip is the technical term for what we call the cup). What can I say, I am a silver lining kind of guy.
But having the CVs at those angles should be alright for me, my driving style is very slow and methodical, its why I have done so well on the trails, my throttle is very sensitive. I attribute my throttle control skills to years of playing console video games:work: