Rear Door Spare Tire Mount

Alright, first update, no way its fittin inside without major mod to interior door frame, so that is a no go for me.
I went to the junkyard, picked up a rear door spare mount off of a Nissan Pathfinder. 100% bolt on, 6 on 5.5 pattern, one of the lugs has a padlock attachment built into it. Only took me about 2 minutes with a 14mm socket to get it off. Cost me 20 bucks. This will be a quick job tomorrow morning, I will post pics when I am done. He is trying to track down any other Vxs in south carolina within the junkyard community. He at least knew what it was when I pulled in.
They had several other isuzus, thread jack, do all of the manual hubs off of isuzus fit ours? They had a 88 Trooper and a 93 Amigo with manual hubs. He said 50 bucks a pair if I pull em. I will probably haggle for both sets for 75, that way I have spares. I cycled all 4, they felt clean, smooth action, no binding. They looked identical. The computer there showed that all the Isuzus used the same size hubs, be it manual or auto.
Any other parts I should look out for, under the hood they were complete as far as engines and support components. They had several 90s models and early 2k Rodeos.

Marlin,

I forgot to mention that the PO put a layer of padding (some kind of closed cell foam) under the bracket. He only did it on the outside bracket though.

You can sorta see it in my pix (but only if you're looking for it).

Tom

Marlin, as far as the hubs...if he will give you a good deal take them. Even if they don't fit you can clean them up and double your money saling them on PlanetIsuzoo.com. Give Matt at Indy4x a call and he will know if they will work. Are they Warn or Asins? They should be 17 spline I believe.

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Originally Posted by Marlin

They had several other isuzus, thread jack, do all of the manual hubs off of isuzus fit ours? They had a 88 Trooper and a 93 Amigo with manual hubs. He said 50 bucks a pair if I pull em. I will probably haggle for both sets for 75, that way I have spares. I cycled all 4, they felt clean, smooth action, no binding. They looked identical. The computer there showed that all the Isuzus used the same size hubs, be it manual or auto.
Any other parts I should look out for, under the hood they were complete as far as engines and support components. They had several 90s models and early 2k Rodeos.

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I would ask the PlanetIsuzu guys. AFAIK, it depends on the spline count. I pulled a pair of WARN manual hubs off a 90 Trooper and have yet to see if they fit my Trooper. I think they will since my Trooper is a 91 and the donor vehicle was a 90, but I suppose there is still a chance. IIRC, the 1st of the 1st gen Troopers had a different spline count than the later 1st gens. The WARNs I got are nice. I hope they fit. :thumbup:

Bart

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Originally Posted by Triathlete

Marlin, as far as the hubs...if he will give you a good deal take them. Even if they don't fit you can clean them up and double your money saling them on PlanetIsuzoo.com. Give Matt at Indy4x a call and he will know if they will work. Are they Warn or Asins? They should be 17 spline I believe.

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I do know ours are 17 spline. Kodiak, what brand are yours, they look indentical to the ones you had on. The red face style.
I will try tomorrow.

As far as the foam under the bracket, I was actually planning on using the non-skid type tool drawer liner, it should prevent the bracket from rubbing against the door, thus preventing rust. It also will give a bit of room for water to evaporate.

I believe that it the rear door will look fine with the tire. It is already shaped like the tire, even the rear window is curved to match. Mine will also cover my dent:)

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Originally Posted by ZEUS

Hey, come on... that wouldn't piss me off at all! ...In fact, I already tried it - the tire was way too big to take it one step further even if it were resting at a 60 degree angle - other than that, the structural integrity would be too compromised for it to work. My favorite idea regarding all this was to remove the hatch completely and replace it with one made of tube so the spare would swing on it and sit right above the bumper instead of behind it... it would only work for the dedicated wheeling VX I have in my dreams tho!

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I was referring to the changing my mind aspect...
Anyway, I looked real hard at the Pathfinder mounting system. It is separate of the door, and it actually mounts to the side of the vehicle, placing the weight on a different set of hinges. It would be difficult to make it fit the contours of the VX though. It would not be impossible and it would still allow convenient access to the door vice the hitch type spare mount. Not a fan of the hitch type at all. We shall see tomorrow morning, I should have pics up by lunch if it stops raining.

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Originally Posted by ZEUS

Hey, come on... that wouldn't piss me off at all! ...In fact, I already tried it - the tire was way too big to take it one step further even if it were resting at a 60 degree angle - other than that, the structural integrity would be too compromised for it to work. My favorite idea regarding all this was to remove the hatch completely and replace it with one made of tube so the spare would swing on it and sit right above the bumper instead of behind it... it would only work for the dedicated wheeling VX I have in my dreams tho!

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I can imagine it now. A rear tube door. All that visibility. Awww... soothing....

What about a vertical "tube" carrier that would allow the tire to sit right in front of the factory spare space. You could remove the cover and donut to get the tire as far to the rear as possible. Put a hinge and pin at the bottom so when the door is open it can swing down for ease of removal and to access other stuff in the rear.:cool:

Hubs:

Both should fit, the 93 for sure, the 88 most likely. I think 87 is the break for the 8 bolt front axles. The red ones are the aisins. strongest hubs out there but way too expensive to buy new. I went with Warns instead of getting scrap aisins and rebuilding. Matt at indie has rebuild kits you an buy for the aisins.

Tire mount:

sounds like you are too far in, but have you ever thought, what I will do eventually, to creat a shelf in the back of the VX that the spare tire can slip under? I know my 285/75 would fit in nicely. The area could have some extra area around the sides, and infront behind the seats plenty of room for an OBA tank. you lose the rear seat though, but I think most of us are well past that point. Also, no external fabrication needed. its all contained inside.

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Originally Posted by Marlin

Kodiak, what brand are yours, they look indentical to the ones you had on. The red face style.

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They’re stock Aisin manual hubs. They came off of a first gen Rodeo. They sell for about $25 each here. I haven’t been to pick and pull this month. I’m waiting for one of there 50% off days.

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Originally Posted by ZEUS

Interesting... you could mount the tire just above the floor but have a pad for it to sit on to relieve stress from the mount during travel. Still don't like the weight tho...

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I am not sure what this weight we are talking about is coming from. I just weighed the spare and mounting hardware and then my full size spare. The spare and hardware was about 27lbs. My full size was about 70 with the new bracket.
Assuming the whole door is around 300lbs, that is an increase of around 12.5 percent or so. That is not significant at all. Even if the door was 200lbs, that is still only around 20%, still well within engineering specifications.
The real concern would be departure angle, which I believe you would lose cladding first, and as Tom said, for the once in a lifetime need, you could always remove the tire right quick and clear your obstacle. A PITA, but you might do it once...ever.
Jack, is that a better presentation...LOL.

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Originally Posted by NJ99VX

tank. you lose the rear seat though, but I think most of us are well past that point. Also, no external fabrication needed. its all contained inside.

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Loss of rear seat is not an option for me. Otherwise I agree that would be the best route, just put everything on top of the spare. Or even just stand it on its side behind the seat like the cherokee. Not a significant loss.
Nope, its goin on the door tomorrow morning, if worst comes to worst, I can always just take it off and install the bolts with some RTV, paint them some color I deem fitting and you are left with a very subtle mod remnant that the average person would never even notice.

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Originally Posted by tomdietrying

I'll let Jack do it first and get all the wrinkles out of it first.
Peace.
Tom

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whoa whoa whoa.... i said i wasnt gonna be the guinea pig...(tom, im refering to a guinea pig who offroads on a regular basis ;) )

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Originally Posted by Triathlete

Dropping off some of those Moab ledges with a spare mounted out back would definately "reshape" the rear hatch! I think a removeable baja style mount in the rear is what I'd go with...but I'm quite happy with a few ratchet straps in the rear.:cool::smilewink

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ya, thats EXACTLY what im worried about...

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Originally Posted by Marlin

Jack, is that a better presentation...LOL.

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thats more like it ;)


with all this talk, i have actually came up with a great idea... may work for some, maybe not for others, i havent actually measured so i dont know, but its worth a try...
why not build a wooden or metal box where the factory spare goes, and mount your full size spare on the inside of that??
would eliminate our small amount of cargo space, but would hold the tire, take the weight off the sheet metal, and still be able to carry a full size spare...

hmmm.... ill let you guys know how it works once i get the money to build the box lol :naughty:

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Originally Posted by pbkid

why not build a wooden or metal box where the factory spare goes, and mount your full size spare on the inside of that??
would eliminate our small amount of cargo space, but would hold the tire, take the weight off the sheet metal, and still be able to carry a full size spare...

hmmm.... ill let you guys know how it works once i get the money to build the box lol :naughty:

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I looked at it, the fit for the factory spare is very tight, so if you are beyond the factory size, which almost all of us are, it won't work to use any of the interior of the spare area.
I was thinkin along those lines too, but no go.

no no...you mis understand...recreate the cover for the rear door, in wood or metal (so you can mount whatever you want 'inside' of the wood/metal cage..

then mount the full size spare on the outside of the box/cage built....basically taking up the cargo space we do have...

say, you had your back seat in, and stood your full size spare up inside your VX behind the back seat...mount it in that area, but attached to the rear door...


you could even use the factory mounting system for the factory spare...that way you always can get the spare unmounted (with the factory lug wrench)

quick installation and removal when going wheeling, and it doesnt comprimise any of these things people mentioned ;)

just space

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Originally Posted by tom4bren

Hope y'all like the smell of rubber. Having the spare inside will certainly add to the ambience.

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i got one up on you.. check my other thread for details..

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with all this talk, i have actually came up with a great idea... may work for some, maybe not for others, i havent actually measured so i dont know, but its worth a try...
why not build a wooden or metal box where the factory spare goes, and mount your full size spare on the inside of that??
would eliminate our small amount of cargo space, but would hold the tire, take the weight off the sheet metal, and still be able to carry a full size spare...

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Thats what I described above only with tubing instead of a box and instead of mounting to the door mount to the floor with a hinge so it swings down and out!:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Triathlete

Thats what I described above only with tubing instead of a box and instead of mounting to the door mount to the floor with a hinge so it swings down and out!:rolleyes:

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great minds think alike ;)

Hmmm, my main question is: Is the full-size spare planned to be VX carried full-time OR only on off-road outings???

If the full-size spare is only planned for off-road outings, then the "donut" should be retained for urban travel.

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Originally Posted by Riff Raff

Hmmm, my main question is: Is the full-size spare planned to be VX carried full-time OR only on off-road outings???

If the full-size spare is only planned for off-road outings, then the "donut" should be retained for urban travel.

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donut will not work if you change your tires from stock AT ALL....

i keep my full size spare with me all the time...

Another option for those with no back seat might be a cradle with a ratchet strap over the top of the tire like the ralley trucks use...
http://www.tubusracing.com/sv/images...rs/rotate1.jpg

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Originally Posted by Riff Raff

If the full-size spare is only planned for off-road outings, then the "donut" should be retained for urban travel.

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Yeah never ever put any other sized tire on the VX on any one or two tires, your TOD will fry like a poptart's wrapper in the microwave ;)

Alright boys and girls, as promised I completed the project. I now know why there is no deformation on Toms door. It isn't just sheet metal. The outer painted piece is standard body sheet metal, but it is layered on top of some pretty thick stuff. I did not go the same route as Tom's PO did. I used longer bolts and went all the way through the inner spare support portion. I used 3/8" bolts, 4.5 inches long with nylock nuts. I mounted it more like studs, with the head of the bolt inside the door. This enabled me to keep my gas can in the door. Now the weight should not be on the outer steel, but most should be distributed inside the spare area, which is also some heavy duty steel. Overall, including removing the isuzu badge, took about 1.25 hours or so. Not long at all. It came out pretty good, I still need to find a way to mount the license plate, but the way I have will do for now. I was running around with no rear cladding and on the way to Ace Hardware, I cop turned around in the road to come get me, but I think he got a call, cause he ended up doin a 360 with his lights on, I was the only other car out, but on the way home, I saw what I assume to be the same cop at a house with his lights on...seriously doubt I would have gotten a ticket, if I explained what I was doin, I had the plate in the passenger seat.
If anyone has anymore questions about this project, it is pretty easy. The door didn't seem to hang any different, as I said, a 20% weight change is not significant. Once again, the bracket came off of a Pathfinder, it has a padlock stud built into it. The angle of departure and approach shouldn't be affected too much either, it sits pretty high off the ground.
Materials needed:
Drill, 3/8" metal bit
4 3/8x4.5" bolts, 8 flat washers, 4 lock washers and 4 nylock nuts
9/16 socket, and a 9/16 wrench
sharpie marker
tape measure
1 spare mount off of a Nissan Pathfinder(make sure you get all three lugnuts too, I only got two, I am a dummy...)
Some tool drawer rubber or somethin for behind the bracket
Primer(for the holes after you drill them)
Putty knife for taking the ISUZU badge off and some goo gone for residue.
An extra hand may be needed when tightening the bolts, I couldn't reach all the way inside and outside at the same time.
I had to take the cladding off, I wish I had mounted it about 2 inches higher. The bottom bolts ended up on curved portion of the door, which was a PITA to drill, hence the cladding removal, I did tear up some plastic trying to drill those holes out, but nothing you can see once the bracket is mounted. Overall I put this project at a 6 out of 10, but only cause you gotta measure precisely or else risk it being crooked. I think mine may be off a tiny bit, but nothing significant. I did notice that my bracket is a little bent, that is my bad, didn't check at the junkyard, but no biggie. The only deformation was a bit of the cladding, as you tighten the bolts down, it compresses the cladding a bit, but nothing extreme.
Here are the pics:

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/a...u/IMGP0262.jpg

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/a...u/IMGP0260.jpg

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/a...u/IMGP0263.jpg

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/a...u/IMGP0261.jpg

The biggest problem I noted, my stickers are covered up!!!!!!!! Now I have to move my extra Jeep Recovery Sticker, glad I bought two. ;)
The door opens smoothly, no rubbing, nothing abnormal at all from what I can tell. I bounced it around, hung on the spare, no bending of the metal. I think this is a solid mount. For those looking for an option, I think this is a good one...

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Originally Posted by LittleBeast

Yeah never ever put any other sized tire on the VX on any one or two tires, your TOD will fry like a poptart's wrapper in the microwave ;)

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I would think you could get away with a different size in the front...if you have manual hubs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That is why that is my next mod, plus I wanna do donuts and I like the idea of being able to disengage the front in case of CV problems. That way I can still drive it.

Not too bad. I just am not sold on it yet. I would love to see one in person to decide for myself if I want to do this. I think it looks unfinished. As I dont need or even have a rear seat anymore I am still thinking of going with the inside vertical mount like I have been planning.

Edit: After thinking about it. I wonder about something that would be a little lower. Like where the lower cladding is. Something that I could remove for around town use and put the tire inside and would not ruin the look of the door by having an ugly bracket sitting there. But on trips when the back is loaded and I want the space that the spare is taking by standing there I could pull it and mount it back there. Hmmm. I'll need to think about this more....

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Originally Posted by CrnCnn

Not too bad. I just am not sold on it yet.

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Mine fits great on the inside,If I need the space that bad,I'll do roof basket.:cool:

I think it looks great! Nice job.
Peace.
Tom

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Originally Posted by tomdietrying

I think it looks great! Nice job.
Peace.
Tom

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Thanks Tom. I did some more playing, and rocked the car around with the tire, still no flex of the metal. I need to go hit some mud holes around here. See what comes of it.

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I like the idea of being able to disengage the front in case of CV problems. That way I can still drive it.

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Nope, don't work that way. The hubs are at the end of the line. If a CV goes bad it will still be spinning with the hub dis-engaged. The tires just won't be driven. In order for it to work you would have to have a TOD disconnect switch, a JDM transfer case or a real transfer case so you can dis-engage the drive shaft.
The VX as it is with manual hubs dis-engaged the drive shaft and axle shafts are still spinning.

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Originally Posted by CrnCnn

Edit: After thinking about it. I wonder about something that would be a little lower. Like where the lower cladding is. Something that I could remove for around town use and put the tire inside and would not ruin the look of the door by having an ugly bracket sitting there. But on trips when the back is loaded and I want the space that the spare is taking by standing there I could pull it and mount it back there. Hmmm. I'll need to think about this more....

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Something like this would do the job and be more functional. It would totally protect your cladding and it swings down for door access! If I was to do an outside mount this is what I would check into...
http://4wheelonline.com/Images/Categ...arStingers.jpg

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Originally Posted by Triathlete

Nope, don't work that way. The hubs are at the end of the line. If a CV goes bad it will still be spinning with the hub dis-engaged. The tires just won't be driven. In order for it to work you would have to have a TOD disconnect switch, a JDM transfer case or a real transfer case so you can dis-engage the drive shaft.
The VX as it is with manual hubs dis-engaged the drive shaft and axle shafts are still spinning.

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I was thinking more along the lines of this...I got this from the manual hubs thread. It would be more than a flip of a switch, but better than nothing.


Hubs
Awhile ago we spent alot of time discussing whether lockable hubs are any advantage. It was part of the TOD 2wd selector discussion (mbeach, me and others). The hubs disconnect the wheels from the front halfshafts. True the TOD does keep the whole front spinning, however it can't send torque there. I have lockable hubs and here is why:

1) Better gas mileage. I've monitored this with a scan gauge. On a 40 mile round trip at 70 miles an hour I got 1.4 mpg better with the hubs disengaged as opposed to locked. These runs were back to back on the same day, same conditions on the same highway both directions to combat any wind. I even refueled to keep the weight the same. On my 1900 miles to and from moab this year I averaged 19.8 mpg with the hubs disconnected. (albeit driving like a grandma)

1a) At one point I had the TOD cut off (there is a blue wire, its in the previous discussions) and I seemed to get even better mileage but never tested it. I reconnected it to prevent any damage and I was tired of the check light on the TOD.

2) With the hubs disconnected. The TOD cannot transmit any TORQUE to the wheels. So the reliability is better because nothing is loaded. I am lifted and have had a hell of a time with my CV's. Granted they are still spinning but that is much better than spinning AND transmitting torque. As for whether the front axle freewheeling is a good thing; It can't over spin (ie go faster than the rear), it freewheels some of the time with the TOD anyway, so I've never seen any problem.

3) 2wd is fun. In the snow and rain it is a hoot. Plus it is all you really need most of the time (my opinion, others will differ)

4) Bragging rights for climbing obstacles in 2wd are always better than those in 4wd.

5) If you break a cv on the trail you can ulock the hubs and unbolt the front axle from the TOD and get home. (I've never had to do this, yet, Though I tried it to make sure it works just in case.)

So thats my 2 cents. I have the superwinch hubs and they have held up fine. Though if I had to do it over again I probably would've just pulled some from a trooper.

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Originally Posted by Marlin

So thats my 2 cents. I have the superwinch hubs and they have held up fine. Though if I had to do it over again I probably would've just pulled some from a trooper.

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There are varying schools of thought on the Superwinch vs. Aisin hub debate.

While Aisin's are considered stronger/better built, some say it's better to use the Superwinch or other aftermarket hubs as a "fuse" to prevent CV damage.
Having the hub grenade before any CV damage happens would make for a much easier trail repair if you carry a spare hub...:_wrench:

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Originally Posted by Ldub

There are varying schools of thought on the Superwinch vs. Aisin hub debate.

While Aisin's are considered stronger/better built, some say it's better to use the Superwinch or other aftermarket hubs as a "fuse" to prevent CV damage.
Having the hub grenade before any CV damage happens would make for a much easier trail repair if you carry a spare hub...:_wrench:

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Interesting thought, purposely buy an inferior product to act as a sacrifical anode for your CVs....

After I do the hubs, I am gonna do the HID roof lights. Ldub, yours were blinding. I am going with H11s, I can get the fixtures for about 20 bucks a piece and the HID kit, transformer, ballast and bulb for about 50 bucks a pair. That is less than a 100 bucks to do the project, just gotta find a cool box to put the ballast and transformer in...Tupperware maybe>:smack:

Thanks Marlin for all the leg work. Heading out to the junk yards to find a mount today!! :cool:

How about some pics of the inside of the door. Come on... your a RAD guy.... you can do it.

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Originally Posted by Marlin

just gotta find a cool box to put the ballast and transformer in...Tupperware maybe>:smack:

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Here's what I used...

http://www.mysigg.com/index.asp?Page...TS&Category=31

Might be able to snoop em' for le$$ on ebay...:_confused

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Originally Posted by Ldub

Here's what I used...

http://www.mysigg.com/index.asp?Page...TS&Category=31

Might be able to snoop em' for le$$ on ebay...:_confused

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Very nice, and they have them in Pink!!!!!

I was looking at this:http://cgi.ebay.com/Military-Waterpr...3A1%7C294%3A50

and yes I know, thread jack...

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Originally Posted by crager34

Thanks Marlin for all the leg work. Heading out to the junk yards to find a mount today!! :cool:

How about some pics of the inside of the door. Come on... your a RAD guy.... you can do it.

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Not a problem, I will snap some pics when I get home, but as I said, not a whole lot see, just 4 bolts heads on the spare mount plate...and one extra hole I drilled cause I didn't measure perfect:( No worries, no one will ever see it, except via this photo, maybe I will put a bolt through it so it looks like it is serving a purpose....
Remember, try moving yours higher, I suggest taking the rear cladding off so you don't put the bottom bolts on the curve of the door.
You can't see anything out the rear window anyway, that is why I have a digital rear view mirror, and the camera is mounted on the spoiler, so the tire is in the shot, but not enough to block anything important. My second back up camera needs to be relocated though, it was mounted over the license plate, gotta move that down now. Oh well, I never use it anyway.

Marlin,

I can't see your pix while at work. I'll try to have a look tonight. Sounds like you did a great job though. I might have to fab up some spacers and go through the second layer of metal (just to ease my mind if someone ever decides to slam the door closed).

"i got one up on you.. check my other thread for details.."

Eric - looks like you went 16 up on us.

"I hate encouraging that guy tho..."

Nice - Happy Monday to you too.

Tom