I'm exhausted...

[Cyrk]

More drama from my duals... After getting dyno'd and seeing almost no difference with the new duals and it being too F'n loud still, I went to a custom exhaust shop (recommend by the Dyno shop) that does some great work to look at my duals... They had me come back and they said that this was one of the worst hack jobs they had ever seen on an exhaust. Pipes crushed, mufflers leaking, welds broken, hangers hanging wrong and the list goes on... It really look likes a hack job and I am embarrassed that i had put up with all the time and money to have this crap done. They told me that I should get my money back!

I called the shop that did the original work and told them what they said, he wants me to bring back all the parts and we are going to work something out, I better get my money back. I took photos of the hack job in case i need to go to court. I will post the photos of the hack in a bit...

Needless to say the exhaust is almost done and going to be done right with this new shop.

2.5 Stainless Steel pipes all mandrel bent and tig welded into Magnaflow cats into a Single 3' in Dual out Magnaflow muffler with dual 3' tips.

Will pick it up tonight and get here dyno'd again to see what is up.

Will post picks when she is done, this place does nice work and I will NEVER do business with the other shop again.

-Dave

[transio]

Why put two new cats and reroute into a single muffler? You always get a better sound with two cans, because it eliminates any possible drone. The only reason I went with a single muffler on mine is because I didn't replace any of the piping up to the old muffler.

[Cyrk]

There was not much room for the extra pipe down the side and this shop said that should not have been done that way from the get go. This will be a much cleaner install and it will match the stock set up minus the larger diameter SS pipes and duals out the back.


Photos of the duals :mad:
http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/thumbs/HackJob6.jpg (http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/HackJob6.jpg)http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/thumbs/HackJob5.jpg (http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/HackJob5.jpg)http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/thumbs/HackJob4.jpg (http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/HackJob4.jpg)http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/thumbs/HackJob3.jpg (http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/HackJob3.jpg)http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/thumbs/HackJob2.jpg (http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/HackJob2.jpg)http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/thumbs/HackJob1.jpg (http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/HackJob1.jpg)

Check this out, if you look thru the tail pipes there is a piece of metal blocking the flow on each side? WTF...

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/thumbs/HackJob7.jpg (http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/HackJob7.jpg)

[Nazrat]

And I bet it was quite annoying with the exhaust rigidly mounted to the transfer case. They use rubber mounts in exhaust systems for a reason.

-Tad

[AREA 51]

So are you still calling it your "crapicross"?

[mbeach]

That really looks like poop.

Deal or not, I'd do all I could to get those guys out of business. It's obvious that they don't have a clue.

I hope that your new system works out though, I like the dual (high flow) cats into single inlet muffler option. I have been looking into the same thing using Random cats and a Magnaflow can. Dual (same side) exhaust would be nice if you're not into crazy plumbing.

[Cyrk]

CrapaCROSS Yep... kinda like the sound of it! :p

Hopefully after the stupid exhaust gets worked out I will be feeling better about her again. You know it really sucks cause I enjoy the VX so much and these bastards managed to make me hate it. It was way to loud, felt slower and it cost too much money.

I am excited to see what this new place can do, they showed me tons photos and actual work they were doing at the time on a vette and another truck. It was VERY professional looking work.

[Swordy]

Has anyone else experienced a significant drop in low end torqe related to the reduced backpressure of better mufflers?

[mbeach]

Exhaust flow velocity is what provides the scavenging effect we so desire to maintain good torque -not backpressure.

Velocity is determined by design/materials. Backpressure is the result of bends/kinks in the system. Backpressure is ALWAYS bad. Velocity can be optimized by designing/sizing your exhaust system for the maximum anticipated flow.

Think of a hose connected to a water pump (after all, an engine is an air pump). When the hose is sized correctly (flow vs. cross section), the water comes out at it's maximum velocity (good). If the hose is too big, water merely trickles out (flow is fixed by the pump) =no velocity. Kink the hose (backpressure) and you just hurt the pump -you do nothing to increase the flow velocity. Fluid dynamics is pretty boring, and difficult to explain on an empty stomach. It's even harder to listen to.

Bottom line:
Correctly sized pipe, with minimal restrictions is your best bet for performance. Mufflers are there to control sound, not flow. Only crappy mufflers induce flow-killing turbulence. The perforated core MagnaFlows are a good pick. Choose a longer can for max sound wave absorbtion.

[Swordy]

I know that what you are saying makes sense, and thats what I was always told, but why then does even a miniscual leak between my cats and muffler degrade the performance sooo much?

[transio]

OMG that's an ugly setup, Cyrk!!! And LABOR INTENSIVE!!! Why on earth would someone install an exhaust that way?!? The people who did this shouldn't just refund your money, they should be arrested!! :D

[Cyrk]

Just got back... THANK YOU Todd, and the rest at Grand Muffler you guys did an outstanding job on the new exhaust. Sounds mean need to go back to the dyno to mess with the FMU now that I have an exhaust working correctly. I look forward to letting it break in and mellow out a bit. Whew this is what I wanted from the get go.

Todd was showing me that on the old pipes the other shop welded they did not even weld around to the top so it was just sitting open! :mad: :mad: :(

Feels strong and sound nice! Great craftsmanship, check out the pics...

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/thumbs/IMG_0494.jpg (http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/IMG_0494.jpg)http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/thumbs/IMG_0493.jpg (http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/IMG_0493.jpg)http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/thumbs/IMG_0491.jpg (http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/IMG_0491.jpg)http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/thumbs/IMG_0490.jpg (http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/IMG_0490.jpg)

[Cyrk]

More pics:

http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/thumbs/IMG_0508.jpg (http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/IMG_0508.jpg)http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/thumbs/IMG_0506.jpg (http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/IMG_0506.jpg)http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/thumbs/IMG_0505.jpg (http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/IMG_0505.jpg)http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/thumbs/IMG_0504.jpg (http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/IMG_0504.jpg)http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/thumbs/IMG_0501.jpg (http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/IMG_0501.jpg)http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/thumbs/IMG_0500.jpg (http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/IMG_0500.jpg)http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/thumbs/IMG_0495.jpg (http://www.vehicross.info/gallery/data/500/IMG_0495.jpg)

[mbeach]

That is outstanding workmanship -truly, they should be proud. I like the custom badge, it's a nice touch and shows that they'll stand behind their work. Whatever you paid, I'm certain that it was well worth it.

Swordy, is that leak near an O2 sensor?

[transio]

MUCH better! Wow, that's night and day! Remember it will take about 1000 miles before the sound "matures" completely, too... so it will only get better with time! :D

[thebear54]

Just a touch better than the first job Cyrk ;)
Looks awesome
John

[Cyrk]

I got a huge box in my truck with all the old exhaust parts, going to drop it off at the shop to have a talk with them... I better be getting my money back. :mad:

[transio]

How did you pay them? If paid by CC, you can file a complaint with your CC company. If by cash, you can always sue.

[Swordy]

That is outstanding workmanship -truly, they should be proud. I like the custom badge, it's a nice touch and shows that they'll stand behind their work. Whatever you paid, I'm certain that it was well worth it.

Swordy, is that leak near an O2 sensor?

No, it is at the flex coupler.

[Joe_Black]

Looking good Dave! Using mandrel tube with the TIG process is a win-win in exhaust fabrication. I've been trying for years to scoop a good deal on surplus/auction mandrel benders and they always end up going for a mint.

Keep us updated with the dyno results! ;)

[mbeach]

I see a lot of manual benders going for reasonable prices (< $1000), with the correct mandrels they would be suitable for rollcage/exhaust fabrication. There's even a few kits out there to help build your own. I'd like to have one of those -I'd be a bending fool.
Now, if you're looking for one of those hydraulic auto-benders, I've heard they sell for close to $20k.

Swordy, IIRC the flex coupler is within a couple of inches of a rear O2 sensor -if those values (left to right) are not the same, you'll have fueling issues. I wonder if there was clean (unburnt) air being drawn in through the leak, and the O2 sensor was catching it every now and again -this would indicate a lean condition at one of the four sensors. Not enough to throw a code possibly, but just enough to send your FMU into fits.
That's the only thing that I can think of.

[transio]

Now, if you're looking for one of those hydraulic auto-benders, I've heard they sell for close to $20k.
They're too cool, though! The guy who did my exhaust used it as a pipe reducer even!!! :)

[Joe_Black]

Yeah, the big mandrel benders are awesome and priced accordingly. But they can be had for less than $1000 at auction, usually government sales of military or state/county surplus. It's just finding the stuff that's close (big 'n' heavy!) and everyone else isn't wanting as bad as you. ;)

[alleycat]

Pipes really look great. If yu lived closer I would get my VX done.
ed

[Maugan_VX]

Cyrk,

Nice pipes.

Those pics make me want to go clean the underside of my ride up :(

[Numba1goalie]

thats the best work I have ever seen before. I mean wow!

How much did you pay them to do that?