Dealer runaround

[mcaramb@rocketmail.com]

Hi all... TOD started acting up about two weeks ago. Intermittently was dropping out of gear until I release gas, then reapply. Happens maybe 3 times a week. Also noticing sometimes klunky up shifting between lower gears.

So... took to local reputable transmission shop. They said fluid level was fine, but it was BLACK (burnt) which indicated major problems with the transmission. They said I needed to bring it to dealer for in-warranty repair or replacement (drive train warranty is 10 years).

So... I took it the nearest dealer last night (100 miles away).

Now, the dealer says It was just a leak, and fluid was low. They repaired the leak, and said I need to pick up the car. I argued the point repeating what the guy here said, but they said they drove it around and it was fine. I said it's an INTERMITTENT PROBLEM!!! I got them to agree to drive it another day, so maybe it's a moot point...

But this dealer is 100 miles away (the closest to my home) and having to drive back out there AGAIN later if fluid wasn't the problem is a big issue for me.

So... What do you all think? Could it really just be a fluid replacement and leak fix problem? Or are they just trying to get out of replacing an expensive transmission?

Thanks
-Mike

PS: the fluid has never been changed, and I've got 86,000 miles on the car. This was as per instructions from ISUZU. I asked them if I should ever change it, and they said it was a sealed system and all I needed to check every 20k was the level by removing the upper screw and seeing is fluid runs out. I did this maybe three times over the life of the car, and fluid level has been fine.

[creeg]

Are you the original owner? If not, it most likely is not under warranty.

[Chopper]

Owners manual... section eight, page 11 every 20,000 mi.. Transfer case and axles at 15000 30000 then every 30000. Power steering fluid and brake fluid, every 20 or 30000 or two years (they attract water) which ever is shorter. This is what Isuzu told you, a salesman or service schmuck told you the sealed system crap.

[Anita]

Take your owners manual, copy the page and fax it to them!! You said, "per instructions from ISUZU". Where did that come from? The dealer? Yikes

[etlsport]

i hope you have proof they told you not to change the fluid... if not your warranty may be void due to improper maintence...

[mcaramb]

Yes, I've read the manual, and it actually says
(under the severe driving conditions section on page 8-11):

*Change automatic transmission fluid every 20,000 miles
*Contact your Isuzu dealer for further informations.

So, that's what I did. I called for further informations :)

I believe I called Isuzu corporate (not a dealer), and they are the ones who told me it doesn't need to be changed, especially since I don't meet any of the very specific criteria listed on page 8-11 for severe driving conditions. So I should have a case for not having to follow that instruction anyhow. Stupid me for not recording the phone conversation. Hind-sight is 20/20 as they say.

Furthermore, on page 8-10 it says to CHECK (not CHANGE as it says for other fluids) TOD system fluid level every 12 months or every 15k miles. This is what I've been doing. Changing the fluid required special connections at the radiator and a flush machine (from what the dealers were telling me)

So, far as I know, I've been following the book and my warranty shouldn't be void.

And yes, I'm the original owner.

What I was asking you guys is if you think black fluid is enough of an indicator to justify my making a case for the dealer to drop the pan and inspect for damage.

Thanks,
-Mike

[Dino]

YES!!!!


That would be the thing to do from a mechanics viewpoint. Black means old. Clutch pacs wear out. Those particles son't just disappear, they end up in the fluid. It should be inspected and possibly serviced under warranty.

MAKE THEM PULL THE PAN AND LOOK AT THEIR EXPENSE!! Just apply a bit of tactful pressre... ;)

[mcaramb]

They pulled the pan, didn't find any shrapnel. I feel much better now :)

Had them fix the rear seal (was leaking somewhat) and finally got a transmission fluid change :) No problems since. Was thinking perhaps the oil simply broke down or became too contaminated over time and became less effective.

THanks for the advice all

-Mike