Driver's Tail light guard- NEED INPUT

[VX KAT]

Having the Fab shop make tail light guards (like wekilled and Julian911 have)


Passenger side- No problem, 2 metal tabs still allow door to close w/o rubbing

PROBLEM- Driver's side-

• Clearance between edge of plastic lens and left edge of tail gate is smaller than other side, smaller by at least 3/8" ! .
  
  
• Then it gets worse when rear door is opened about 45 degrees, the clearance on the INNER GRAY vertical part of lens is extremely small....about 1/16".
  
  
• The metal tabs will really chew up the metal edge of door.

• Haven't heard back from Julian or Doug on how they handled this, or even if they had an issue....handmade and all that....

• Since I don't know what it looks like behind tail lamp unit.....and the gray vertical part of the lamp unit does appear to be biased to the right a bit more than other side...

1) Is there any way to move the light unit to the left some way? Shim it?

2) Do we dare notch the edge of the metal door (maybe 1/8") and apply primer and touch up paint?

3) Do we sand down the vertical inner gray part of lamp, (this gray part is not visible unless you open gate and look in the space)......AND / OR sand down the edge of the plastic lens itself? (Realizing we don't want to break the "seal" on that lamp and have moisture get in....I snapped a used tail lamp on ebay this morning just in case)

4) Use much thinner metal for these tabs...would they be strong enough?

5) Do we take a COMPLETELY different approach and drill about 4-6 mounting holes symmetrically along the outline of the lens and have metal attachment tabs welded to the guard? We wouldn't use any of the 3 mounting points Doug and Julian used. That would mean drilling into the body metal and the cladding




Sorry, no pics.
ANY SUGGESTIONS / GUIDANCE since many of you know what that area looks like?

Thanks!

[Y33TREKker]

Going by Julian's thread at least, it looked like a lot of time custom fitting the brackets/tabs was necessary to get his "just right", so I imagine what you're experiencing is normal.

Things like this are difficult to offer any input on if a person isn't standing right there looking at the clearances, so I'd say just give it some time and either you or your fabricator will eventually have an AHA! moment and determine what is needed to make it work.

And out of curiosity, are you wanting functional guards meaning that metal would be your first preference, or is it mostly a visual standpoint you're operating from?

If it's more of a visual thing, what would be the chance of picking up a set of GTS smoked tail light covers and simply cutting out sections of those so that the remaining material would give you the look you want?

[vt_maverick]

Seems to me that drilling holes into the lens defeats the whole point of lens/light guards, so I definitely wouldn't go that route. I'm with Trek on this, especially as it relates to #4:

4) Use much thinner metal for these tabs...would they be strong enough?

Strong enough for what? To be a real guard, or just to stay on at speed and over bumps? If the latter I would think the attachment points could be really thin since the covers will be fairly light and largely out of the way of wind.

[Ldub]

Things like this are difficult to offer any input on if a person isn't standing right there looking at the clearances, so I'd say just give it some time and either you or your fabricator will eventually have an AHA! moment and determine what is needed to make it work.

I'm agreeing with Trek too...without "eyes on", there is no answer to this question...

Sorry Suzee... You know I still ya...

But that's what fab guys are supposed to be able to figure out.

[VX KAT]

it's mostly visual/aesthetic, but some functional aspect with all these nasty cats claw bush things around here that etch the side of the car and lens, ..... I really like the look of the metal guards (call me old school I guess) so wouldn't be happy with the GTS smoked ones, either as is, or if I cut out sections to make it appear it has horizontal "bars".

STATUS UPDATE......

As post #1 says....fab shop started, but found MY Driver's side clearance too limited.

Last week some brand new Manik tail light guards for 98-02 Rodeos (style #488659) popped up on ebay, so I snapped up a pair in case they may work out.

Came today, after I started this thread. Look great, took them up to the fab shop. Metal tabs are much thinner...so that's definitely part of the solution on the custom ones. Have to re-locate and change the angle of the 2 metal tabs to line up with our VX tail light screws (like wekilled mentioned too).

http://www.ebay.com/itm/110833475533...9#ht_500wt_878






Here's the tabs they fabbed so far (on pass side, but too thick for Driver's side)










So to recap this classic Suzy fiasco....er, um, I mean project.....

Plan A -Black plastic ones...wrong curvature.....

Plan B -Stainless steel with flat metal instead of tubular style....wrong curvature and no one can bend the suckers....

Plan C - Custom made from scratch....my specific VX rear gate tolerance on driver's side is really narrow.........

Plan D - Use the Manik guards, re-locate the thinner tabs, then evaluate if we can shave or shim the lens in some way AND / OR notch the edge of the rear door. Yes, I THINK I'm willing to alter the metal edge of the rear door (and cladding edge) to make this work.......while making sure lamp integrity is maintained.

So......tomorrow they'll evaluate the Manik guards.....and we'll see what has to be done to the lens or gate......stay tuned......
.

Still welcome any advice / input /cautions /suggestions!
.
.
......and yes, I'm going to get a 2nd opinion tomorrow from my other "regular" off-road shop.....
Come on guys, you've got custom fabbed sandrails, VW buses, pick-ups, and other custom things all over your shop....what's so freakin' hard about this? Are they afraid because my VX is so pristine and this is the first time we've worked together and they're not sure how flexible I am, etc...? Could be.

Plus, I have a horrible, I mean HORRIBLE chest cold and can hardly speak (as V can attest to), so all my communication has been in a raspy whisper which doesn't help.....

[Ldub]

took them up to the fab shop. Metal tabs are much thinner...so that's definitely part of the solution on the custom ones.

I'm sorry, but that's the kind of thing a good fab shop should be able to figure out...bust out da grinder...

However, knowing how picky you are, they may be a bit gun shy...

But that's just you... And that's O K

[ron]

Couldn't you have the tabs snake back to the surface of the lens about a .5" thus moving connection point towards the inside of the light profile and clearing te swing radius of the opening door?

[blacksambo]

Have holding brackets only on the leading edge of the left lens. I know this is not as strong but it sure makes things a whole lot easier.

[JoFotoz]

Not liking the tabs going under the cladding...and bowing it out.

How about using the cladding Torx screws (Put in longer ones)..
.... as mounting points.


OK..it will only be two point mounting either side.....
But this should solve your Drivers side issue too..I think!

jo

[VX KAT]

Definitely frustrated shop hasn't solved this on their own....

Already mentioned the bowing out of the cladding had to be corrected...which led to the discussion that I thought the tabs looked way too thick for the task. I took my caliper with me...the Manik tabs are about 1/16" (including the powdercoat) vs. 1/8".

Dub, I've actually told them over and over, I'm flexible, not that picky and understand some "compromises" may have to be made to make this all work. ....specifically so they wouldn't be gun shy.
I also said I didn't know what it looked like behind the lens, so I wasn't sure how to proceed. That's why I hired them!

Ron, are you saying have the metal tabs snake up through the actual plastic lens housing and up to the surface of the plastic lens? I wasn't quite sure if I got that correctly?

On a positive note......the aluminum tread plate sills came out great!
Used the existing screws and cladding bolts on sill to secure it. Had them take it down around the lowest piece of cladding which means it shows with door closed. They suggested I cut it off higher so it didn't show. I'm still thinking on that...must solve the tailguards first.

This shop is super busy (which I thought was a really good sign), there must be 15 different off-road vehicles of various types around.....and my truck's been there a week already. Maybe the busy schedule explains why they weren't really getting creative on this problem...not a good excuse, just a thought I had.

....to be continued.....

[lasturbo]

Hi KAT,
Forgive my ignorance but are you just doing these for looks or actual protection? Obviously they may protect from some types of brush but any type of impact may do more damage than just maybe losing a lens. Coming from my Land Rover dealer roots, those guards were weak and any type of impact and/or catching on something actually ripped from the body damaging the surrounding area requiring body shop and paint = $$$. The way yours are mounted could potentially be the same and more damage as a result......But we personalize our vehicles to our own desired taste and I applaude your persistence to make these work. I just hope they are not charging you an arm and a leg for fabrication. Good luck!

[Y33TREKker]

...Ron, are you saying have the metal tabs snake up through the actual plastic lens housing and up to the surface of the plastic lens? I wasn't quite sure if I got that correctly?...

If I had to guess, I'd say that Ron was suggesting having those existing tabs made longer so they could then have additional 90 degree (or so) bends added that would follow the contours of the taillight lens...which would position the tabs the guards screwed/bolted into parallel with the plastic lens of the taillight.

Bosses could be placed on the back of those tabs (the sides facing the taillight) for use with the screws/bolts holding on the guards you're installing, but neither the tabs or the bosses would ever actually touch the taillight lens.

Granted, that would add an additional step if it became necessary to change a bulb in one of the taillights because those mounting pieces would then also have to be removed before being able to pull the taillight off, but, that's the price you pay for having custom $#!+.

[VX KAT]

Hi KAT,
Forgive my ignorance but are you just doing these for looks or actual protection? Obviously they may protect from some types of brush but any type of impact may do more damage than just maybe losing a lens. Coming from my Land Rover dealer roots, those guards were weak and any type of impact and/or catching on something actually ripped from the body damaging the surrounding area requiring body shop and paint = $$$. The way yours are mounted could potentially be the same and more damage as a result......But we personalize our vehicles to our own desired taste and I applaude your persistence to make these work. I just hope they are not charging you an arm and a leg for fabrication. Good luck!

If I had to guess, I'd say that Ron was suggesting having those existing tabs made longer so they could then have additional 90 degree (or so) bends added that would follow the contours of the taillight lens...which would position the tabs the guards screwed/bolted into parallel with the plastic lens of the taillight.

Bosses could be placed on the back of those tabs (the sides facing the taillight) for use with the screws/bolts holding on the guards you're installing, but neither the tabs or the bosses would ever actually touch the taillight lens.

Granted, that would add an additional step if it became necessary to change a bulb in one of the taillights because those mounting pieces would then also have to be removed before being able to pull the taillight off, but, that's the price you pay for having custom $#!+.

Sad but true ...love the look....really want them....and yes maybe 10% is about protection from really tough chaparral around here.
I know 'zactly whatcha mean about the damage potential of all grill guards...the cowcatcher on our D90 was well known to damage the heck out of the front...I can see where the tail guards could get yanked off too and cause a real mess.

That's also why I favored the FLAT metal style (stainless but would get powdercoated)...as I thought they could be mounted a little more flush to the plastic lens....or dare I say....use 3M double stick tape? But they're so robust, nobody can bend them.

I asked if they could heat them up to soften the metal and just open them up a bit (the curvature angle)...but guy told me today because the horizontal bars had a larger flat top surface , it would be really difficult to get them to spread wider w/o damaging them (I don't know, is it like bubble gum and you stretch it and it gets real thin in the center??) I thought it was mostly re-shaping the metal, not stretching it. ANYBODY KNOW SOMEONE THAT COULD RESHAPE THESE?

TREK, thanks I do understand now exactly what you're saying (that Ron said...) Yes, they were already planning on making the tabs take a 90 degree turn to run parallel with the lens..... and then another turn outward to mate up to the guard. You can kind of see that 3D style of the Manik tabs in the pic...it's not just an "L" shape, it's 3D




Can see L-shape tab on wekilled's pic here: It's coming from that last cladding screw, then 90 degrees outward, and then another angle again to match up to the vertical tubing.




Stainless ones have flat top surface on the horizontal bars:

[Y33TREKker]

I'm no professional metal worker mind you, but if you like the stainless set that you have, I'm thinking the best choice your fabricator would have of making those work would be along the lines of chopping the roof on a vehicle based on the idea that the shortest distance between any two points is a straight line.

Even if the metal could be heated and re-bent, the excess length of the guard from one side of the taillight to the other would still be there. To get each crossbar to follow the contour of the taillight more closely and the sides to still line up, some length would have to be removed. How much length would depend on what kind of clearance you wanted between the guard and the taillight.

For example, if you cut one of those stainless guards in half from top middle to bottom middle at the center bend, aligned each side of the guard to the appropriate side of the taillight, then proceeded to bend the pieces (BFH, rubber mallet, etc) so that they'd follow the contour of the taillight starting at the outside edges and working towards the middle, when you arrived at the middle you would have some excess length that would have to be removed before the two pieces of the guard could be welded back together. (Your fabricators would have to weld the two pieces back together, then grind down the welds to make the squared/flattened shapes match again, which shouldn't be an issue if you're going to have them powder coated, or for that matter, even if you wanted to leave them stainless since the stainless could be polished out again too).

It doesn't look like as much length would have to be removed from the outline of the guards as would have to be removed from the crossbars, but I'm sure your fabricators would see that too.

[VX KAT]

Now that's an idea worth discussing further with the fab guys! Thanks TREK! I think I need "Flem" from Sons of Guns"!!

• Cut 'em in half vertically at the junction of the 90 degree angle,

• remove any excess length on the horizontal bars,

• PERHAPS fab up and insert a horizontal piece that has correct corner angle,

• address angle of outline frame

• weld 'em all back together at proper angle/curvature

• . Grind down the weld to be flat.

• ..get powdercoated.

• Seriously consider 3M double stick tape...

....hmmmm....hmmmm.....