Israel vs. Hezb'Allah

[Chopper]

I think the Lebanon I remember as a 16 year old ('69-'70) was one of the most beautiful, magical,places in the world. A cosmopolitan, almost European style...some how infused with 6000 years of culture and continuity. The place where humans first learned seafaring,the result being,a place made up of little bits of the whole worlds ideas and ways. My description comes up short. I look now and feel only hollow. When all the humans are gone, maybe then the Cedars will regrow... it will be beautiful again.

[thebear54]

VX TALK...........YES

POLITICS.........NO

Although sympathetic this is NOT a subject for a Car Club Forum

There is no need for any kind of conflict or war if people would stop reacting with emotions instead of good common sense and the brains which God gave all of us.

John

[Soulpower]

Even though this is a car forum, I (and probably most on this forum) see this more as a VX OWNER'S, their FAMILIES & COMMUNITY forum. Hence, over the years, I've felt fortunate to be "included" in other members' general "triumphs, trials and tribulations". It w'ld be a sad day when members are no longer allowed to express themselves on other topics other than the VX. Nuff said!

[Moncha]

Well said and very true! That's why there is a chit chat section.
The Big Thread Closer in the sky will come down when things get out of hand (as in the past). So far, so good.. Keep it that way and we will always have a family forum....

Even though this is a car forum, I (and probably most on this forum) see this more as a VX OWNER'S, their FAMILIES & COMMUNITY forum. Hence, over the years, I've felt fortunate to be "included" in other members' general "triumphs, trials and tribulations". It w'ld be a sad day when members are no longer allowed to express themselves on other topics other than the VX. Nuff said!

[Heraclid]

Someone is to blame for the suffering of the Lebanese people alright, but not Israel. I support Israel, which is only doing what it must to survive. They have bent over backwards for peace before and it has gotten them nothing. This is of course because nothing less than the total annihilation of Israel will make these Islamic radicals happy. Not even that, actually - they won't be content to stop there. I felt a bit less sorry for Lebanon when they said their army would fight against Israel should there be an invasion. I realize it is hard when Hezbollah pretty much has free reign of the place. But until the Lebanese people take a stand to root out this evil from within and take back their country, they are just contributing to the problem. While they permit these nuts to live among them, then naturally they too will continue to die in Israeli airstrikes. This is Hezbollah's fault for using them as human shields, not Israel's fault. Israel cannot just allow Hezbollah to lob rockets at them, collateral damage or not.

[WyrreJ]

If reducing Hezbollah's ability to "lob rockets" is Israel's goal, the plan has certainly backfired. Each time Israel announces how succesful they've been at reducing Hezbollah's offensive capabilities, Hezbollah fires off even more rockets, even deeper into Israel than they have before.

Actually blaming the civilians themselves for not doing enough to stop hezbollah is really out of whack. With at least a third of the population below the poverty line, they've got enough problem just surviving, never mind worrying about some other country. If Israel wants Lebananon to to protect it from hezbollah, blowing the crap out of the country's infrastructure sure won't help acheive that goal. As far as I can tell, prior to this attack, Israel hadn't contributed a dime of aid to Lebanon at all, much less their security infrastructure.

You seem content to buy into the claim that Israel must kill every last one of them and anyone unlucky enough to get in the crossfire, because they aren't rational humans, they are bloodthirty, unreasonable monsters. That's the big lie that all governments use to justify killing innocents ("Sadam is a mad man," "Kim Jong Il is a mad man," "Gaddafi is a mad man," "Noriega is a mad man," "Milosevic is a mad man" "Castro is a mad man," "Arafat is a madman," the list is practically endless). I've heard the lie enough already and seen enough contrary facts already that anytime it gets used, its proof enough for me that it is a lie. No more free passes with that one, especially when it is used to justify killing people who have nothing to do with the dispute anyway.

[maxw]

You can choose to ignore history, choose to ignore that the Palestinian situation was born of their Arab brothers telling them to flee as their righteous armies swept the Jews into the sea and destroyed the Zionist State ; choose to ignore that these terrorists of which this was born were applauding the horror of 9/11 and the death of the infidels; choose to ignore that Hezballah does not direct attacks on military targets, but seeks out, solely and utterly ,civilians ; choose to ignore that these cowards choose to place their bases amongst innocents so that they may then ask for intervention by third parties; choose to ignore that they are like children who kill their parents and then ask the court to be merciful because they are poor orphans. But one thing you cannot ignore , and that is that unlike their neighbors, when Israel mistakenly wounds and injures children and civilians, the only true and longstanding democracy in the Middle East mourns and debates, hearing an outcry from within as opposed to the celebrations of their neighbors when Israeli civilians are purposefully targetted by these cowardly murderers who masquerade as so-called resistance fighters, and who then flee to hide amongst their sacrificial civilian brethren.
If innocence is the first casualty of war, then truth is surely the second.

[WiSDoM]

That's the big lie that all governments use to justify killing innocents ("Sadam is a mad man," "Kim Jong Il is a mad man," "Gaddafi is a mad man," "Noriega is a mad man," "Milosevic is a mad man" "Castro is a mad man," "Arafat is a madman," the list is practically endless). I've heard the lie enough already and seen enough contrary facts already that anytime it gets used, its proof enough for me that it is a lie. No more free passes with that one, especially when it is used to justify killing people who have nothing to do with the dispute anyway.

Jeezes what facts have you seen that these people are not complete bastards? What world are you living in? I wouldn't want any of these people living near me let alone running my country. You might want to stop watching Al-Jazeera and maybe tune into main stream new agencies. I am just wondering why you left out Hugo Chavez, Pol Pot, and Papa Doc and Baby Duvalier or any number of other bastards. I don't know maybe even Hitler, sure why not add him too your dinner party list?

Any else want to add to the list of innocents?

[ZEUS]

I think the Lebanon I remember as a 16 year old ('69-'70) was one of the most beautiful, magical,places in the world. A cosmopolitan, almost European style...some how infused with 6000 years of culture and continuity. The place where humans first learned seafaring,the result being,a place made up of little bits of the whole worlds ideas and ways. My description comes up short. I look now and feel only hollow. When all the humans are gone, maybe then the Cedars will regrow... it will be beautiful again.

Chopper, that's great... poetic even.
In man as a whole, sometimes the only thing that seems to be evolving is the use of technology, propaganda, and weaponry to display power. True power would be to overcome the urge to have it. If there is a Godhead which created all Chopper described above and more why would it also create a "religious following" so vain to destroy it? I think we are all witness to a glorified gang war full of excuses! The innocents of the neighborhoods suffer the most and there is more than one way to fall victim... How can it end when those who fight fail to see what they should be fighting for?

[WyrreJ]

I can second Chopper. My aunt spent most of high school there (my grandfather worked for Aramco for a while) and she has said that it was an incredible place.

[E-ZooZoo One]

After my last post, I've found myself re-reading quite a bit of Twain...
It turns out that there are a few more quotes I'd like to share:

“Man is a Religious Animal. He is the only Religious Animal. He is the only animal that has the True Religion
-- several of them. He is the only animal that loves his neighbor as himself, and cuts his throat if his theology isn't straight. He has made a graveyard of the globe in trying his honest best to smooth his brother's path to happiness and heaven.”

“Man is the only animal that deals in that atrocity of atrocities, War. He is the only one that gathers his brethren about him and goes forth in cold blood and calm pulse to exterminate his kind. He is the only animal that for sordid wages will march out... and help to slaughter strangers of his own species who have done him no harm and with whom he has no quarrel.... And in the intervals between campaigns he washes the blood off his hands and works for "the universal brotherhood of man" - with his mouth.”

“Man is the only animal that blushes -- or needs to.”

- Mark Twain (excerpts from ‘The Lowest Animal’ essay)