Tranny Filter

[Joe_Black]

Nothing to duke out, just difference of opinions. With a motorsports, marine and aviation background my line of thinking follows two doctrines: Keep it simple and Failure is not an option. I base my opinions on real-world facts and keep my yap shut shut until I've seen and touched actual data. I've made bad calls and mistakes, and I'm sure there's more in my future. I'm always willing to learn and see a different point of view, as long as it's backed up and not purely passion or flaming ignorance.

Now, as for changing the transmission filter: There is some clearance issues with a cross member under the pan. If you have the service manual that should give you a good idea as to what's involved, or you can sped some time laying under you VX and attempt to grok the situation. Failing either of those two just post here and I'll post up some pics and the relevant sections from the service manual.

Since you're planning on dropping the pan you may want to get your hands on a torque wrench as it's real easy to strip or break the pan bolts. One or two isn't critical, but it will annoy you to no end.

Oh, see if they have nylon gasket scrapers when you get your filter. One of the best tools to have for cleaning up gasket surfaces as it's virtually impossible to mess up and score or scratch the mating surfaces.

[nfpgasmask]

Also, one more thing, if I am doing a transmission fluid and filter change, and the trans case, how much fluid should I buy? From what I have read on here, looks like 10 quarts should do the job. I told this to my buddy who is going to help me with the fluid change, and he said "no way, my truck (Dodge Ram Sport) only took like 5 quarts!"

So, I'm doing the transmission and the transfer case at the same time, so how much ATF should I buy? I'm going to Wal*mart tommorrow to see if they have the Mobile 1 synth.

Thanks to everyone again.

Bart

[SPAZZ]

that all depends. depends on how much comes out. But, if you buy 10 and only 7 comes out... then you will be fine now won't you?

If you buy 5 and 7 come out then you will be making a trip.

[Tone]

You will only get about 5 maybe 6 quarts out as the converter and cooler will still retain fluid. But always have more on hand in case you spill a bottle or 2 as pumping fluid UP into a tranny is a very messy job. Best way to get all the fluid out is to have it flushed and if you add the inline filter after you do this change, you will never have to drop the pan again - only drain and fill and replace this simple inline filter.

[nfpgasmask]

Yeah, I can always take some back or save some for few days in case I have some leaks 0_0

Thanks - Bart

that all depends. depends on how much comes out. But, if you buy 10 and only 7 comes out... then you will be fine now won't you?

If you buy 5 and 7 come out then you will be making a trip.

[Joe_Black]

Using the technique in my how-to on about 5 4L30E trannies so far has yielded an average of 8 quarts. You get about a quart from dropping the adapter pan and there's the additional fluid that comes out when you start cycling through the gears once you get to that stage.

As Spazz is getting at, it's better to have it and not need then need it and not have it.

[UtahVXer]

Joe,
Can you explain a little bit more what you mean about an inline filter possibly damaging the tranny? I was thinking about getting one, but don't want to do anything that might be harmful. ACDelco claims their filter "maintains proper fluid flow" and even has a safety bypass valve "to maintain coninuous flow" in the event filter blockage occurs:

Magnetic In-Line Transmission Filters
Additional protection can never hurt, so consider using a magnetic in-line filter from ACDelco to help remove tiny metal particles from the transmission fluid. Each kit includes the filter, two hoses, four clamps, instruction sheet, and a removable reminder sticker for scheduled replacement. The barbed fittings are designed to easily fit into transmission or power steering lines. ACDelco Universal Magnetic In-Line Transmission Filters offer these other great benefits:
Injection-molded, reinforced nylon casing is temperature-, vibration- and impact-resistant
Powerful ferrite-filled polyamide magnet attracts ferrous contaminants
Designed to provide effective filtration while maintaining proper fluid flow
Safety by-pass valve helps enable continuous fluid flow if filter blockage occurs
Steel sleeve maintains rigidity of paper filter
Large, fine paper element removes nonferrous particles

http://www.acdelco.com/parts/filters...on-filters.htm

Any more information would be appreciated. Thanks.

[Tobert]

They have a fluid pump at Autozone that works great for the VX transmission. I tried that whole funnel and hose thing and it took too long. The hose that comes with it is perfect to stuff into the fill hole. I found mine back by the tractor and gearcase oil.

[Joe_Black]

Joe,
Can you explain a little bit more what you mean about an inline filter possibly damaging the tranny? I was thinking about getting one, but don't want to do anything that might be harmful. ACDelco claims their filter "maintains proper fluid flow" and even has a safety bypass valve "to maintain coninuous flow" in the event filter blockage occurs:

On most automatic transmisssions, especially so on the 4L30E, the fluid is circulated to the cooler via a low-pressure output from the valve body of the transmission. Its design parameters cover just moving the fluid through unrestricted lines and the transmission already has a filter designed to 400% of necessary capacity. For an aftermarket filter to go into bypass mode a certain line pressure has to be reached, usually between 30 and 50 psi depending on the filter and system. At those pressures the valve body will have pretty much found somewhere less desireable to pump the fluid internally.

The return from the tranny cooler just dumps back into the pan where the fluid is suctioned through the filter. Again, the source wasn't designed with enough pressure to push fluid through filter media. It can, for a time, but it won't like it.

If you look at professional and motorsports transmission filter setups there's always an outboard pump to move the fluid through the filter media and any additional or specially mounted coolers. That outboard pump picks up from the valve body output and boosts it to the necessary pressure to get through whatever additional plumbing is in the system.

Hope that helps explain my opinion.

[nfpgasmask]

OK, so yesterday, I changed the fluid in the trans, transfer case, and put in a new transmission filter & gasket.

First off, let me say that my fluid was BAD. Totally chocolate colored and burnt smelling. I'm at 29,000 miles and I do not think this service has ever been performed. I drained about 5 quarts or so of fluid.

It really was not as difficult as I thought it was going to be. I did the service with my good friend who is also a part-time mechanic. He was utterly amazed that the VX has no dipstick or fill reservoir under the hood. We used a little hand pump that we got at Pep Boys to pump the new ATF in. I used Mobile 1 ATF. We filled the trans until the fill plug was just spilling out ATF. I think this is the right amount. I hope so anyway. I'm going under again to check for leaks and to check my fluid level again today or tomorrow.

Thanks to the tips from everyone, I felt confident enough to do this work on my own. If anyone has any follow-up tips or precautions, please let me know.

Also, one thing that made it easier: I bought my filter and gasket about a week prior to the service. As soon as I got the filter and gasket, I took out the gasket and put it flat under my floor matting all week. So, when it came time to replace the gasket, I was able to lay in on the pan nice and flat and replaced it with no difficulty. The old gasket came off easily as well. Didn't need to scrape at all.

Shifting seemed smoother from the get go. All in all, the job went smooth.
Even in power mode, shifting felt better, however I think the aggressive shifting is normal for power mode.

I'm rolling out to the dunes this weekend. After I get back, I'm gonna change the diff fluid and soon after I'm gonna change the tranny fluid again since I switched to synthetic.


Thanks - Bart

[Joe_Black]

Glad to hear ya got the job done Bart! Wasn't that bad after all, huh?

If you didn't cycle through all the gears under brake load before finishing, be sure to check your fluid level again as the TC and valve body will suck up a bunch, not to mention the little bit saturating the new filter. In that case you'll get in maybe around 2 more quarts. And the more you get in there the better!

Personally I wouldn't worry about another immediate fluid change because of the switch to syntehtic. Maybe wait at least 10 to 15 thousand miles. The reason for most short changes after switching to synthetic is for engines where synthetic typically releases built-up sludge from a motor previously used with conventional oil. This isn't a problem with a transmission in most cases.

[nfpgasmask]

Hey Thanks! No, it really wasn't nearly as hard as I anticipated. Just messy, messy, messy.

Yes, after we filled it up and capped off the fill plug, I started her up and cycled through all the gears, then I drove it about a mile to the local lunch joint, ate, came back and checked the level again, it was fine, a small stream poured out. I guess I am more worried about overfill. I am going to unplug it again tonight or tomorrow just to be sure, as I am going on a 5 hour drive to the dunes this Friday.

Bart

Glad to hear ya got the job done Bart! Wasn't that bad after all, huh?

If you didn't cycle through all the gears under brake load before finishing, be sure to check your fluid level again as the TC and valve body will suck up a bunch, not to mention the little bit saturating the new filter. In that case you'll get in maybe around 2 more quarts. And the more you get in there the better!

Personally I wouldn't worry about another immediate fluid change because of the switch to syntehtic. Maybe wait at least 10 to 15 thousand miles. The reason for most short changes after switching to synthetic is for engines where synthetic typically releases built-up sludge from a motor previously used with conventional oil. This isn't a problem with a transmission in most cases.

[Ldub]

This has been posted in the past, but just in case you missed it...

[Joe_Black]

Yeah, the whole "no dipstick" aspect of the 4L30E has been it's greatest complaint for the owners of the various makes it's been installed in. Once, I came across mention of a "dipstick tube" part and had hoped to see if such a thing would bolt up to the models without a tube. Never could get more info than the vague snippet I stumbled on.

If the Aisin 5-speed install goes nicely in the rally VX we're building then I may just need to convert the IronMan too.

[nfpgasmask]

Yeah, and then I can stop by next time i'm in FLA and have you do up mine too!

Now, I must tell you, on the way home from work today the shifting slammed a few times while going up from 2nd to 3rd, and I was not in power mode either. I did what I did last time, pulled over, shut off for a minute, started up and drove home the rest of the way with no trouble.

I wonder why this happens, especially since I just changed my fluid. I am not happy about this, but maybe its just how the VX is. I dunno. I'm gonna check my level once she cools down a bit. I hope there is nothing seriously "wrong" or "damaged" with my VX's tranny. Especially since the VX is still "new" to me, being an owner for only 3-4 month now.

Bart

Yeah, the whole "no dipstick" aspect of the 4L30E has been it's greatest complaint for the owners of the various makes it's been installed in. Once, I came across mention of a "dipstick tube" part and had hoped to see if such a thing would bolt up to the models without a tube. Never could get more info than the vague snippet I stumbled on.

If the Aisin 5-speed install goes nicely in the rally VX we're building then I may just need to convert the IronMan too.