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Thread: TOD discussion

  1. #16
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    I don't know if this has been mentioned in this thread but realize when you open the circuit to the clutch it is NOT in 100% 2WD mode, there is still plenty of torque going to the front wheels, enough to snap the front drive shaft when on a 2 WD Dyno - been there, done that. That is also a factor why gas mileage does not measurably increase with the current TOD disconnects out there. Good luck and I hope ya'll can make the whole thing work as planned.

  2. #17
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by mbeach
    as well as be easily installed and removed by anyone with fingers.
    I can tell that if this comes to fruition, It'll be a good mod for me...cuz I have fingers!!!
    Good work you most admirable brainiacs, Ldub

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tone
    ...but realize when you open the circuit to the clutch it is NOT in 100% 2WD mode, there is still plenty of torque going to the front wheels.

    I did not know that.
    I was hoping that it would be in 2wd until the VSS tells the TOD that the truck is moving faster than 5 mph.
    That means that there must still be a mechanical connection somewhere.

    I'll see what the PWM signal is at <5 mph vs. >5mph.

    Also, there's a few suspect pins on the connector. There is a 4wd output at pin 3 that I want to look at in addition to the solenoid wire at pin 4.

  4. #19
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    Eureka!

    Please bear with me.

    We are working on motion distribution NOT torque distribution.
    We should be concentrating on torque distribution via the electromechanical clutch.

    There is no axle disconnect on the VX, and the transfer case has no allowance for any 'freewheeling' of the front axle. The design of the transfer case is such that the front axle (and wheels) are ALWAYS driven at the same speed as the rear driving wheels. Rotational speed is NOT torque. Torque only exists when there is resistance to this rotational movement. This resistance is applied by two things: the electromechanical clutch, and the ball/ramp mechanism (see figure 3 and 4, as well as page 16-17 of the patent). The ball/ramp design of the coupling mechanism is NOT self locking UNLESS there is a control input. Resistance to movement (at the front wheels) provides this control input just as well as activation of the e-clutch.

    This explains Tone's snapped driveshaft. The solenoid was deactivated, yet the speed differential between the front and rear axle was great enough to allow the ball/ramp clutch to force the rotor away from the connecting sleeve -this action transferred (almost) 100% of the available torque to the front axle and BOOM. Tone, did your dyno graph suddenly fall off just before your driveshaft went?

    The E-clutch provides a means of modulating torque by applying measured resistance to motion according to a predetermined pattern.

    Assuming that I haven't completely lost my mind, there is NO WAY that we will ever have true 2wd without an axle disconnect feature.
    So, that leaves us with modulation of the e-clutch's holding power via PWM. This can be done only as long as both driveshafts are turning. If the front driveshaft should stop suddenly (like it is dropped into a hole under power), expect the ball/ramp clutch to do its work, regardless of what setting the manual TOD switch is in.

  5. #20
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    So, if a CV joint is broken and you have unlocking hubs and you lift the blue wire, the front diff will still spin the broken joint/axil?
    Roy

  6. #21
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    Let me be the first in this thread to say....

    .
    .
    .
    .


    YAHTZEE!
    2000 Black VX 105k

  7. #22
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    Newthings, I am inclined to say "yes." To tell for sure, one of our dyno jockeys could leave the drive shaft in and jack up the front of the VX during their next 2wd pull.

    Maugan, if this is something that you knew for certain, please save me the trouble of figuring it out for myself. If it weren't for Tone's post, I would have completely ignored the ball/ramp mechanism, which would have led to big trouble had I decided to test my 'new' 2wd mode by doing donuts in the parking lot.

    This doesn't mean that we can't modulate the clutch to go above the 15% that it seems to like (in '2wd') however.

    It just means we can't have true 2wd. We might be able to use locking hubs to disconnect the wheels, but that driveshaft, diff and those axles will still turn.
    I still want to pull the signals off of some wires to confirm this, but I believe that this (the mechanical connection) is certain and un-bypassable (?) in a non-SOTF transfer case.

    There is a TOD Trooper in a friends' junkyard nearby...

  8. #23
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    I know not about the drive shaft issue.

    All I know is that we're getting close to a dial on my dash for Torque to front!

    and that's cause for silly celebration

  9. #24
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    Man, this sounds sweet. I'm in the same boat as VehiGaz. If I could just have 4-High constantly at the turn on a knob or push button, that would be enough for me. Anyway, I'm completely lost in the post, but I did see this on E-Bay and thought it may help you guys out. Thought I would try to help out in some way, since I don't have clue one about what you guys are talking about. Here's the link:

    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2000-...QQcmdZViewItem

  10. #25
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    I am marlon506 and I am high bidder.
    If I don't win, I hope that SOMEONE here does get it.

    So instead of 2hi, 4hi, auto and manual modes, we can do an AUTO, MANUAL, 4HI.
    That sounds reasonable, and the manual mode can be controlled via potentiometer (by modifying the control voltage to the timer circuit).
    We can use Bob's transistor arrangement to control the dash lights.

    The only catch is:
    We can only vary the torque to the front axle as long as it is GREATER than what is actually required.
    If the speed diferential between front and rear axles is too great, then expect the mechanical 'clutch' to engage the front axle. So no donuts or dynos in 15% mode.
    I can live with that.

  11. #26
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    Anybody going to snap that up?

    Anyone know if this is includded in Tone's Cd? If not, (or even if so) is anybody going to snap this up and maybe scan it for others to use? It would be a great addition to overall knowledge about the VX in addition to the specific issue we are discussing.

    If not I'll start bidding, and post it when if I win it.

  12. #27
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    Sorry, got beat

    mbeach, you beat me to the punch, its all yours

  13. #28
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    Bob,
    As an ME, do you think that my assessment of our situation (no 2wd) is correct?

    Oh, and I've already bid on the book. Believe me, it's knowledge will flow forth like water...

  14. #29
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    If it's any help there is a 1999 version of this booklet offered on a consistent basis on:www.books4cars.com for $40.00. It seems likely that 1999 technology would be the same as 2000 VX's.

  15. #30
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    About 2wd:

    Tone-
    Your axle breaking could shed alot of light on this whole subject. I did a search but couldn’t come up with anything. What exactly happened? I assume it was on a dyno pull. So it was probably in third gear and strapped down with no power to the TOD ecu. Where did the axle break? What rpm? (and thus speed of rear wheels, and speed differential between front and rear) What did the break point look like? Was the break plane smooth, jagged, notched in a pattern, did it look like it snapped or did it deform ductilly? I have a few theories about how it could have happened but they depend on the exact situation, and I could be absolutely wrong on them.

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