Ethanol in the News - 09.06.05

[mbeach]

This is what I got from Maugan's article:

If you're running big boost in a 1000 horsepower 'street' car that's been tuned for it, E85 is good stuff.
But, if you are NA, driving to and from work, E85's lower cost is offset by it's poorer mileage and potential for serious fuel system (injectors, seals, etc.) damage. I'm not sure that this stuff is more or less corrosive than gasoline, but it seems to be cause for worry.

Does that about sum it up?

[Joe_Black]

This somewhat applies to E85 but is more generally info about fuel-grade ethanol: Ethanol has less energy density by volume than gasoline. So for a given amount of fuel you will have less range (average is 20%) than the same amount of gasoline. This is offset though by ethanol's lower cost, lower emissions and domestically renewable source. Not to mention water in ethanol has no effect on fuel delivery or performance and that it keeps your engine sparkling clean inside meaning longer life. Oh, and you can make up to 10,000 gallons yourself at home with a $35 BATF permit and the governement will give you a $.52 tax credit for every gallon you use.

[mbeach]

I'm all for reducing dependence on foreign oil (but y'all better keep buying Alaska crude!).

As for homegrown fuel, will the $$ saved ever pay for the cost of converting a non-flex-fuel vehicle over to safely/reliably burn E85? How about a homebrewed E50?

How nasty/difficult is brewing ethanol at home anyway (not really an option here)?

[Joe_Black]

Converting to flex-fuel, or E85, appears to be more difficult than going pure ethanol. With the pure ethanol you just ensure your fuel pump and system is compatible and upgrade as needed (viton o-rings, improved pump, stainless rail) and get injectors that flow about 30% more fuel. Reset the ECU and adjust from there. With flex-fuel the ECU needs to easily figure out and adjust if you're running E85, gas or a blend.

Then again, this is what's frustrating about the US auto industry: We get the crappiest and most neutered vehicles on the planet to protect our domestic manufacturers, even though they produce a good portion of the foreign competition themselves. And many of the foreign autos are compatible with bio-fuels right off the showroom floor.

As for making ethanol, it's very similar to making beer or wine with the exception of the distillation process. A still capable of making about 8 gallons an hour of 190-proof ethanol can be easily built for less than $500, much less if you're a good scrounger. The leftover material, or "mash", used for the fuel "beer" can usually be sold to local farmers for livestock feed. My plan is to use molasses as it's available nearby as a sugar production by-product and is very easy to ferment for distillation. Last time I priced it was about $60 a ton, which makes near 100 gallons of fuel IIRC.

Check out the web site Journey to Forever for some fantastic info on bio-fuels.

[kpaske]

Joe -

Are you considering converting your VX over to flex fuel or pure Ethanol? I'm still keeping my eyes open for an old Mercedes to run bio-diesel, and who knows? If it works out well I might do a diesel conversion on the VX.

[Joe_Black]

I still have the intent to go pure ethanol in the future. I won't try or advocate anything that is at all reliant on petroleum based fuel, which E85 is.

The recent sale of our 2001 Trooper means that my wife is now driving the '99 IronMan, which was to be my ethanol conversion. So that puts me in the spot of either keeping that vehicle within reach of a fuel supply or carrying addtional fuel if we want to drive it any significant distance rather than the '01 Dragon.

So, the current plan is to purchase a pre-1986 Mercedes turbo diesel and experiment with B100 biodiesel. If we find it's simple and economical to make ourselves then we'll look to convert both VX's to diesel. I'll pickle the gas 6VE1 engines for future projects. The Isuzu engine in overseas intercooled turbo diesel Troopers is the 4JG2, and I've gotten a few quotes over the past week averaging around $3000 for a delivered low-mileage long block. But I have seen a 2nd-gen Trooper with a Mercedes OM617 conversion, but at the time took nothing more than passing interest. Wish I had looked MUCH closer now! The Mercedes crowd is getting wild performance out of that engine. Consider that an early 80's 300D weighs about as much as our VX and that people are drag racing their daily-drivers getting 13's in the 1/4. And that's without any intercooling! You can get used, running OM617 engines for around $500 and it's fully mechanical so there's no ECU or electrical companents to worry about. There's a huge community supporting these engines and cars, plus parts availability is excellent and inexpensive.

So the numbers for a bio-diesel conversion look very good, especially since B100 bio-diesel is fully compatible with petroleum diesel. And that means not getting stuck away from your fuel supply, as you can tank up with pump diesel and be just fine no matter how much bio-diesel is in the tank.

We start getting the bio-diesel processing equipment together this weekend, and will hopefully have a Mercedes 300D by month end. So I'll post info along the way as we learn how viable the idea really is.

[kpaske]

Yes, please keep us informed of your progress. I'm happy to hear that you are going the biodiesel route. I'm nearing the end of my military service and will be going through a job transition as well as moving to another part of the country, so I know I won't be embarking on any major projects until next spring at the earliest, but for a long time I've wanted to rid myself of the petrol dependence. I'm hoping to keep the VX, but I'm really looking for a solution that will boost performance as well as decrease fuel costs. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe a turbo diesel could give us the best of both worlds, with the added benefit of being healthier for the environment if we're running a bio-fuel.

As I mentioned in my other post, I want to get myself an old Mercedes also to experiment with while I get the fuel production process down and if it works out well for us, will also consider doing the VX next.

By the way, since California is so darn expensive, I'm considering the great state of Florida in my job search, so who knows? We could be neighbors soon. Where is Winter Haven, anyways?

[Corey872]

Converting to flex-fuel, or E85, appears to be more difficult than going pure ethanol. With the pure ethanol you just ensure your fuel pump and system is compatible and upgrade as needed (viton o-rings, improved pump, stainless rail) and get injectors that flow about 30% more fuel. Reset the ECU and adjust from there. With flex-fuel the ECU needs to easily figure out and adjust if you're running E85, gas or a blend.

Most new vehicles (ie mid 90's + and definitely OBDII systems) can adjust to the blended fuel automatically by reading the O2 sensors. The vehicles I have run or directly seen run various blends of ethanol have adapted fine. AFOAF reported his Ford ranger set a code running E85...don't remember the specific code, but it reportedly had something to do with the fact that the long term fuel trim was maxed out and the computer didn't like that. But the ECU was still easily responding to the change in fuel, though Larger injectors, or a boost in fuel pressure would help cure the issue.

I believe the two main issues with running straight ethanol are low volatility/cold starting issues and the fact that our government (US) would rather poison you to death rather than have you skip out on taxes on a fifth of booze - hence denaturing. Regular gasoline added to the ethanol in small amounts solves both of these issues very nicely and relatively cheaply.

I have read that most car manufacturers that make any FFV's offer it as a no cost option. Based on that, I have to wonder just how much they are changing on the fuel systems to cope with ethanol. Bigger injectors - probably, change in ECU programming - probably, stainless steel fuel system - doubtful. Next time I see a FFV locally, I will have to climb under it and see what the tank looks like!

[thedutchguy]

I went to brasil last month and was told that ALL the gas at the pump contain ethanol.In other words you can't buy uncut fuel in Brasil at the pump!
This is okay over there because even in the wintertime the temp. stays high enough never to give any problems even when running on 100% ethanol.
What's really remarkable is that I saw a lot of cars getting converted to run on CNG! (compressed natural gas)

[kpaske]

Joe -

I'm signing out in December, and if I relocate, it will likely be in early February. If I can get a job and a place to stay all lined up before I get out, I'll be taking about a month off to spend in Thailand with my wife's family. I'm hoping to eventually get a foreign service position with the State Dept and work overseas for a good part of my career, but since they aren't accepting applications right now for the position I want, I have a couple of options. If I can find a way to afford a full time semester and still support my wife and child, I'd like to finish up my MS degree, then start my new job without having to worry about school for a while. However, I will more than likely take either a contract position somewhere, or maybe even a GS position with the State Dept until the FS positions start to open up.

I had been planning for years to move to Southern California when I finish my military service, but the cost of living and housing down there is just ridiculous, and I really don't think I'm not in a strong enough financial situation to make it work right now. So I'm considering moving back to the Washington DC area (where I'm originally from) because if I do work for the State Dept, I will have to spend at least a year or so there doing my initial training.

However, for stateside living, I would really prefer to be someplace warm. Both of my parents are originally from Florida, and I still have relatives there. I spent a decent amount of time there as a kid and know I like the climate. There is also a State Dept office in Ft. Lauderdale, so I could look into landing a job there (even foreign service employees are required to spend part of their career working in the U.S.).

So to make a long story shorter, I have a lot of prospects, but few decisions have been made. Either way I'm signing out in December, so some major lifestyle changes are coming soon...