Jolly, good point, I have posted several times trying to nail this down and I think what you have stayed must be the difference as Tomdietrying stated to me previous he does not off road much like myself and has no trimming needs. Many thanks gentlemen, I must admit I am a little hung up on the trimming issue. New tires are a big $ item for me and want to make sure the choice is correct. Also want the widest looking tire I can slide on these stock 18's. Thanks much..David Daytona FL