National ID Cards - Coming Soon to Your Wallet

[Tone]

Dang, I finally agree completely with I-Man! Lots of complaining in the USA but try going ANY PLACE ELSE and report back how you like it.

[TYGVR]

Why didn't they put a gps chip (or give them a choice to) in everyone who is working in the war regions overseas. That way if they are kidnapped they can find them sooner. With the last years episodes of kidnaping I think everyone would like to be tracked. Kinda like "Snake Pliskin".

[mbeach]

Go to Canada I'm sure they don't have those kind of cards there, and you can hang out with the rest of the ex-pats, draft dodgers and criminals who found the American system just too hard to deal with. Hell they love your kind up there.

It was kinda funny until we got here.

I was a Paratrooper in the Army for 11 years.
I have served as a consultant for a defense contractor, and I've worked for the Dept. of Homeland Security.
I have also guarded some of our nations most secret technology at a Government research facility.

I have sweat blood and watched some of the finest men I'll ever know, die in service to this land (and you, who have never served anything greater than a dinner, armchair Generals). So if I want to criticize our (my) government's use/misuse of technology, then by God I will. I have earned it.

This bill, if approved and implemented, rubs even my strict conservative fur the wrong way. If it doesn't set off some mental alarm, than you're just not paying attention.

[DK]

[I was a Paratrooper in the Army for 11 years.
I have served as a consultant for a defense contractor, and I've worked for the Dept. of Homeland Security.
I have also guarded some of our nations most secret technology at a Government research facility.

I have sweat blood and watched some of the finest men I'll ever know, die in service to this land (and you, who have never served anything greater than a dinner, armchair Generals). So if I want to criticize our (my) government's use/misuse of technology, then by God I will. I have earned it.

This bill, if approved and implemented, rubs even my strict conservative fur the wrong way. If it doesn't set off some mental alarm, than you're just not paying attention.[/QUOTE]


This reminds me of the story of the frog in the pot of water. The heat slowly rises and the frog doesn't realize it's in trouble until it's too late and it's boiled alive.

Who are these guys that want so much control over us and what are their motives? From what I've seen them do to lie us into a war that has cost over 1600 lives of our military, 10,000 or more injured, and will end up costing us at least a half a trillion dollars -- all, as it has now been documented, based on lies and manipulated intelligence -- I sure as hell don't want these incompetent SOB's in charge of a national database that, if they don't screw it up completely, has ever chance of being misused.

Let the games begin.

[transio]

I was a Paratrooper in the Army for 11 years. I have served as a consultant for a defense contractor, and I've worked for the Dept. of Homeland Security. I have also guarded some of our nations most secret technology at a Government research facility.

Awesome. Great credentials. Here are mine; I've been a database programmer with specialization in personal information directories for many years. One of the central metadirectory databases I helped architect and build was for a [big three auto] security / time tracking database for its million or so employees at 100 or so International facilities.

I have sweat blood and watched some of the finest men I'll ever know, die in service to this land (and you, who have never served anything greater than a dinner, armchair Generals). So if I want to criticize our (my) government's use/misuse of technology, then by God I will. I have earned it.

Is it your contention that those of us who have not served in the military have not "earned the right" to have an opinion on the matter? No one is telling you that you have not got the right to an opinion. We're telling you that we believe your opinion is wrong. Try to recognize the difference. And I don't care if you are a former president, you are not right to imply that your credentials make you any more entitled to your opinion than anyone else here.

This bill, if approved and implemented, rubs even my strict conservative fur the wrong way. If it doesn't set off some mental alarm, than you're just not paying attention.

Why?

This reminds me of the story of the frog in the pot of water. The heat slowly rises and the frog doesn't realize it's in trouble until it's too late and it's boiled alive.

Actually, it was a TV commercial.

Who are these guys that want so much control over us and what are their motives? From what I've seen them do to lie us into a war that has cost over 1600 lives of our military, 10,000 or more injured, and will end up costing us at least a half a trillion dollars -- all, as it has now been documented, based on lies and manipulated intelligence

What does the war have to do with an ID card?

I sure as hell don't want these incompetent SOB's in charge of a national database that, if they don't screw it up completely, has ever chance of being misused.

LOL yeah, I'm sure they'll get George Bush to program it instead of hiring someone like me to do it. He's got nothing better to do with his time anyway, right?

With all your bitching and moaning, I don't see a solid argument anywhere in there against the technology.

You have not presented one negative about the technology. Only made blank assertions like "it infringes on our rights" and "it takes away our freedom." In short, your argument is baseless, essentially saying "I'm an expert because I used to carry a gun. I don't like this technology mumbo jumbo. They can turn us into drones."

Y'all have been watching too many movies. It's a F***ing ID card for christ's sake.

[nyc #1 ironman]

Big Brother is watching

[DK]

Transio, I'm sure you personally are very competent in your field -- but what I see so far with these large systems is one monumental screwup after another. Besides the mess the "no fly" list is in, and the loss of hundreds of thousands of people's confidential info by one of the credit rating companies, the persistent success of hackers penetrating even the most secure data bases including military and financial, the billions that have been spent by the govt to try to update the computer systems of various agencies only to have them tell us that they don't work and they will have to scrap the new systems (meaning flush those billions down the toilet), I have no faith at all that a database and i.d. card system in this country will lead to anything more than chaos on a massive scale.

And the potential for misuse by federal agencies and/or criminals who have penetrated the data base is very real.

And to what purpose is this data base? They've told us it won't make us safer from terrorists -- so it would appear that it's greatest potential would be to help control us. Personally I like to be out of control when bureaucrats are involved.

[transio]

what purpose is this data base?

This pretty much says it all. Without an understanding of the basis of a discussion, how can you expect to provide a valid argument? There are many possible benefits to this type of card. I and others have stated them above.

That said, I agree that the U.S. government pretty much sucks at every system it implements (usually in terms of cost efficiency). I think you're right that extreme care should be taken in creating this ID system. I have no doubt that the top experts will have their hands in it.

[mbeach]

Awesome. Great credentials. Here are mine; I've been a database programmer with specialization in personal information directories for many years. One of the central metadirectory databases I helped architect and build was for a [big three auto] security / time tracking database for its million or so employees at 100 or so International facilities.

Excellent. I'm perfectly confident in your ability to ensure that I get paid correctly and on time. The logistics of an undertaking of this magnatude just blow my mind. Good luck trying to coordinate all of this data.

Is it your contention that those of us who have not served in the military have not "earned the right" to have an opinion on the matter?

Not quite, but close. I respect the opinions of ALL who have sacrificed their time/money/family/happiness/lives in service to the public. They chose to work for the higher cause, rather than the higher bidder. Take it how you will, but I believe that citizenship should be earned, not inherited.

I rarely discuss my military service, as it is a source of pain for me (I am a disabled vet). But when I do bring it up, it's for a good reason. Namely someone who implied that I/we should leave the country simply because we disagree with it's policy -It's not like I'm a Baldwin or something...

DK-
I don't know where you were going when you quoted me earlier, but I let it slide, as it's obvious what side of the fence you are on. Don't use me to support your argument.
Transio is holding his own just fine.

[Heraclid]

This is wonderful! For once there's a political argument where I can just sit back, relax, and watch the rest of you duke it out - because I haven't quite decided on this one yet. This thread is a great read and it really hasn't gotten too out-of-hand... this is how it's done...

[DK]

Sorry, mbeach, my message was directed TO you but I screwed up the quote part somehow.

Maybe it was the national i.d. gremlin showing us what it intends to do should we move forward.

[WyrreJ]

I've been a database programmer with specialization in personal information directories for many years.

With all due respect, being the best brick layer does not make one expert at deciding to build a wall in the first place.

I'm sure more than a few of us here have worked on databases of personal records, at least one person here that I know of even had a substantial part in building the FBI's IAFIS database. But it is quite rare that those doing the engineering work have any experience in studying the social policy that leads to and results from that engineering.

You have not presented one negative about the technology.
Only made blank assertions like "it infringes on our rights" and "it takes away our freedom."

So far no one has made a supportable statement that the Real ID act will do anything positive. Nebulous assertions about stopping terrorists and illegal aliens have been easily disproven. It is simply yet another unfunded federal mandate with no practical benefit to the average citizen that could not be better served by private industry that at the same time increases the risk of government and criminal abuse of identity information.

[transio]

With all due respect, being the best brick layer does not make one expert at deciding to build a wall in the first place.

And the architect?

[transio]

Why didn't they put a gps chip (or give them a choice to) in everyone who is working in the war regions overseas. That way if they are kidnapped they can find them sooner.

Brilliant idea!

[mbeach]

...except that a GPS antenna would also have to be implanted, as well as a power source.

I do love the "Escape from ________" movies though