The tie and rim guy (largest in Chicago) made a call for me when I wanted to order them. Looks like it will be a long hunt. So I order some Limited's that look similar but much simpler design. He actually had the same ones on during the winter. They are going on Monday. I'll post a pic. He just put on 23's with no mods. He's trying out the newer all black rims which he will custom paint to match his car and add blaxk spinners. More than I can handle.