Wet Carpet Syndrome - SOLVED !!!!!

[Jayd-S]

Hi CatFish,
Great to finally meet you! Your posts have always been helpful.
Agreed, Photobucket is right way to go but until I set up an account, I beleive I may be able to post in one hit.
I am resizing all photos again down to 86KB. They are still clear enough to see everything and read the annotations.
Thanks Raider. I am also including the front windshield bottom corner issue in this post. I'm about quarter way through resizing photos and will post as soon as I can.
Thanks for your patience!
Jayd-S

[Jayd-S]

This Post has been posted in 4 SECTIONS! (Can only load 20 images max per post and with a maximum of 15,000 characters!)

SECTION 1.
Please check for a complete follow-up post that will deal with the fix for the front windshield outside side trim and moulding and inside trim panel. In the meantime, the photos A and B show where a small amount of water is coming in through the front windshield pillar.
(Photo A)


(Photo B)


Photos C through G show my early inconclusive findings that suggest a problem with water entering somewhere through the roof, above the head liner! However, before trying the main fix in the body of this post, I recommend you check for moisture behind the interior plastic side trim panel of the front windshield. (See photos C through G) This at least may rule out any possible problem with the roof.
(Photo C)


(Photo D)


(Photo E)


(Photo F)


(Photo G)


Ok, here hopefully will be the definitive answer to the “Wet Carpet Syndrome” ! The solution here applies to both US and JDM manufactured VXs. Since my situation was really bad and involved multiple locations where water was getting in, I am posting the solutions in two, possibly three, manageable parts. I have also taken the position that it is better to seal from the outside rather than letting water sit within a seam which may happen when the seal is made from the inside.

SYMPTOMS
The front carpet becomes damp, to very wet after being parked up for a while when there is moderate to heavy rain. Depending on the degree of camber of the road towards the curb, it is the curb side carpet that is affected. The amount of water that gets in is worse on the driver’s side if that happens to be the side parked against the curb.
When driving in heavy rain or very wet conditions, the carpet on both sides become damp with the driver’s side being more affected.
Secondary symptoms: As you begin to drive the vehicle, the floor pan warms up; the water begins to evaporate and forms condensation on all cold metal surfaces surrounding the foot well and behind the dash, side trim panels. If the moisture is on the driver’s side, the turn signal relay is affected and the turn signal light will either stay on (not flashing) or not come on at all. To rectify this, simply put your heater blower on max to the floor. It takes a couple of minutes to dry out the relay.

THE PROBLEM
PART I.
The problem is exactly the same for both US manufactured and Japanese manufactured vehicles, as in this situation, one is the mirror of the other. All references here are to driver’s side and passenger’s side not left or right. Because all photos are of my JDM VX (right hand drive), I recommend that for owners of left hand drive vehicles, you simply download all the photos and using a simple photo viewer, flip them like a mirror, side to side, this will make it much easier to follow.
In Part I. I have identified three manufacturing faults that compound the problem plus a possible fourth involving the sealant material itself that was used between spot welded seams.
A. The greatest ingress of water is through the rubber grommet in the side cowl immediately forward of the door pillar on the driver’s side through which the hood release cable runs at an acute angle.
(photo 01)


This is not visible until you remove the fender. The manufactures chose to use a flat grommet that is flush to the panel instead of an extended flexible grommet that looks like an elephant’s trunk. Because of the acute angle of the cable, the rubber grommet is stretched open leaving a gap of about 1/8” for water to flow through to the interior behind the dash side trim panel.
(close-up photos 02


and 03)


In my case this was the worst point of water ingress leaving my driver’s side floor an inch deep in water after very heavy rain, parked up, with the road camber tilting down towards the driver’s side.
B. The vertical spot welded seam where the side cowl panel attaches to the front door pillar extending down from the bottom corner of the windshield to the base of the pillar, can be divided into three sections
(photos with 3 sections indicated and access hole to middle quarter section: Photo 04);


an upper quarter at the bottom corner of the windshield
(photo 05 indicate no caulking)


underneath the rubber drip shield that surrounds the hood hinge
(photo 06);


a middle quarter, behind a reinforced box section
(photo 07)


and (photo 08)


as viewed through the access hole in photo 04 above also indicate no caulking and finally a lower half
(photo 09)


(and photo 10).


The top two quarters of this seam has no caulking and water can wick through to the interior.
(See photos 11 below & 08 above),


End of SECTION 1. Continued in SECTION 2.

[Jayd-S]

SECTION 2.


In regard to the top quarter of the seam, in my VX there was clear evidence of water running down the window pillar and under the rubber drip shield and from there it was easy for water to enter this uncaulked seam.
(photo 12)


Along the bottom of the windshield is the black vent cowl cover
(photo 13)


beneath which the trough shaped cowl collects all water from the windshield and channels it to drain through a 2” hole at each side through the upper side cowl panels. (photos 14 & 15 viewed from the outside through the reinforced box section)
(Photo 14)


(Photo 15)


Depending on the camber of the road and whether the vehicle is pointing uphill or downhill, water does flow through the drain holes and down along this middle quarter section of the uncaulked seam.
C. The horizontal spot welded seam between the top of the cowl side panel and the underside of the trough shaped cowl has no caulking either. (photos 16 & 17)
(Photo 16)


(Photo 17)


Normally this would not matter since the trough shaped cowl extends out to each side, over and beyond the top seam of the side cowl panel and curving down to form a drip edge. (photo 16 above) However, the drip edge has been interrupted by a 1” semicircular cut out directly in line with the 2” drain holes, allowing water to run back under the edge directly into the uncaulked seam. (photo 17 above) The alignment of the drain hole and the cut out would suggest that perhaps the designers intended for the fitment of a rubber drain hose to allow drainage directly to the wheel well.
D. The fourth problem may be with the sealant material itself that was used between spot welded seams. Whether it is age or stress/flex, in this lower half of the seam, the material has hardened and shrunk, leaving what appear to be cracks (close-up photos 18 & 19)
(Photo 18)


(Photo 19)


where water may be able to wick through to the interior. I did not go the extra mile to prove this out, preferring simply to go straight to the fix.

THE FIX !
After reading the lengthy problem details above, you will be happy to hear that the fix for Part I. is real easy, will only cost you about $6 and take up to 3 and ¾ hours of your time!
Tools you will need: Stubby and regular length Philips screwdrivers; flat head screwdriver; T30 Torx screwdriver (for 4 cladding screws); ¼” drive 10mm and 8mm sockets, ratchet wrench and 6” extension; a good dustpan brush and a couple of rags.
Supplies: one tube of good quality wicking silicone, the same that is used for sealing glass to rubber joints in windshields. This is liquid enough that it gets drawn into small cracks and seams and then sets.
You are going to be removing the front plastic cladding then the front fenders, both sides. Good news, you can remove the fenders without having to remove the cladding attached to them!
As mentioned above, because my VX is JDM (right hand drive), you may find it easier if you download all the photos first then flip them side to side so you can easily relate to the North American left hand drive.
Words of wisdom: (After the fact!)
Before you start, make sure you can open both doors wide to access some fasteners.
Even if you appear to only have a leak on one side, while you have the front cladding off, it is worth removing both fenders and treating both sides at the same time. Don’t make my mistake and fix one side only to find when you park on the other side of the road, the other carpet gets wet!
Keep the fasteners as close to the holes that they were removed from! There are some slight differences between them and this will make it much easier when you are putting everything back together.
STEP 1 - Removal of front plastic cladding and grille in one piece. (15 minutes) There are a total of 18 fasteners holding the front cladding in place. (Arrowed in red - photos 20, 21 & 22)
(photo 20)


(photo 21)


(photo 22)


Do not attempt to remove the Torx screw between the grille and the headlight at each side (photo 21), these are dummy screws held to the cladding by a small rubber backing.
1) First remove and disconnect the parking lights. Turn anticlockwise to unlock and then pull forward. These can be tough suckers so you may need to reach down between the headlight and the radiator and behind the cladding to turn them and push them out. (Refer to photo 21)
2) Next remove the turn signal lights and disconnect. Two Philips screws hold these in place.
3) Behind each of these lights there is a single 10mm bolt securing the cladding to the metal bumper behind. Remove these bolts. You will need a socket extension to reach them. (photo 22)
4) Next, remove the two 10mm bolts behind the front license plate. (photo 21) If you have a front license plate or a cosmetic front skid plate, you will have to remove them first.
5) Now remove all remaining fasteners except the two bolts closest to the engine hood lock assembly that secure the grille. (photo 21) Move from one side to the other beginning with the 10mm self tapping bolt that secures the front cladding to the fender inside the wheel arch at the front. (photo 20)
6) The front cladding is now loosely hooked behind each fender at the wheel arch.
(photo 23)


Gently unhook one side, then supporting the weight of the cladding in the centre, remove the last two remaining bolts either side of the engine hood lock assembly. Hold the cladding either side of the grille (not the grille itself) (see photo 24)
(Photo 24)


and lift forwards to remove it from the vehicle. The cladding can scratch easily so place on soft surface where you can’t trip over it!

STEP 2. Remove the plastic Inner Liners.
(photo 25)


These are fixed inside of the wheel well above the tires with 10 plastic fasteners.
(photo 26)


At first glance the liner looks as though it is riveted in place but this is not the case. (photo 27 of rivets after removal of inner liner)
(Photo 27)


The curb side edge of the liner is wedged between the cladding and the fender. The plastic fasteners push through a hole through all three layers and then expand on the other side of the hole when the centre plastic 8mm hex head screw/pin is screwed or pushed in. Use an 8mm socket to unscrew the centre pin while holding the body of the fastener until you can pull it free from the hole. Some of the centre pins may not unscrew at first, so you will need a knife or a flat head screwdriver to pry the pin out while you continue to unscrew it. Once you have removed all the fasteners, hold the engine side of the liner, (see photo 25 above) pull it down and towards the engine to release it from the curb side edge and remove from the wheel well. (This takes some effort! Fiddly to put it back too!)

End of SECTION 2. Continued in SECTION 3.

[Jayd-S]

SECTION 3.


STEP 3. Remove the fenders. (You do NOT need to detach the plastic cladding) Each fender is secured with eight 10mm bolts and two plastic fasteners through the plastic cladding above and below at the front of the door sill. (photos 28 & 29)
(photo 28)


(photo 29)


The plastic fasteners work the same way as those used for the inner liner except that they are round and flush fitting with cross slots for a Philips screwdriver.
(photo 30)


1) First, open the doors wide and remove the plastic fasteners that secure the fender cladding as in photos above.
2) While the doors are open, remove the 10mm bolts that secure the fender at the bottom, (photo 31) middle (photo 32) and top (photo 33) of the front door pillar.
(photo 31)


(photo 32)


(photo 33)


3) Remove and disconnect the orange side marker lights. The US triangular marker light lifts out after removing the single screw. The JDM round marker light has no screw; it hooks in at its leading edge and snaps into place at its rear edge. To remove, simply lift it away from the fender at its rear edge.

4) Remove the bottom front 10mm bolt.
(photo 34)


5) Lastly, while carefully supporting the fender, remove the top four 10mm bolts. (photos 35 & 36)
(Photo 35)


(Photo 36)


Use one hand to support the fender at the wheel arch while using the other hand to support its attached cladding at the base of the door pillar and then gently ease the fender and the cladding out and forwards. Again, place on a soft surface where you can’t trip over it!

STEP 4. Inspect, clean and seal all grommets and seams as described in “THE PROBLEM” above. You will see the water and dirt tracks where water has been running. The driver’s side grommet where the hood release cable passes through should be obvious. Because not all VXs have had wet carpet issues, it is possible that they were fitted with a different type of grommet and perhaps even all the seams were fully caulked.
1) Use a stiff brush to clean all areas especially all seams and grommets and then vacuum thoroughly. The middle quarter of the vertical seam is awkward to access (See photo 04) but don’t skimp on the cleaning. At this point you might as well use the brush to clean all other areas that are now exposed, including the inner liners.
2) Now apply the wicking silicone to all seams and grommets. In my VX there were a couple of sizeable gaps in the seams that required a double dose of the wicking silicone (photo 37);
(Photo 37)


this is the time to be thorough! (photos 37 through 45 – all seams and grommets after sealing)
(photo 38)


(photo 39)


(photo 40)


(photo 41)


(photo 42)


(photo 43)


(photo 44)


(photo 45)


End of SECTION 3. Continued in SECTION 4.

[Jayd-S]

SECTION 4.


3) Repeat for the passenger side. The seams on the passenger side of the vehicle were the same; the only difference being that there was a blank grommet for the matching hole where the hood release cable passes through to the interior.
(photo 46)


STEP 5. Reassemble in reverse. Pay particular attention to make sure the fenders line up flush and are evenly spaced with the hood and door panels.

STEPS 2. to 5. took 1 and ¾ hours per side. The whole job took 3 and ¾ hours. I probably could have done it faster if my dogs weren’t trying to help me! (photos 47 & 48)
(photo 47)


(photo 48)


At one point, I wasted a bunch of time looking for my stubby Philips screwdriver until I discovered why I couldn’t find it!
(photo 49)


Busted! (photo 50)


One unrelated point of interest that I noticed while I had the fenders off was that the JDM VX front left fender mirror is positioned directly over a large air intake duct of the same dimensions. (photos 51 & 52) The mirror base has a flange which if extended by 2 inches would fit snuggly into the intake duct. I am guessing this was for a snorkel kit that was never produced?
(Photo 51)


(Photo 52)


There’s nothing more frustrating than a leak that is almost impossible to trace from inside the vehicle especially when it is hidden by the dash. The last thing you want is for the carpet to rot and smell bad.

Definitely looks like there were some manufacturing oversights but a little late for a recall !! Keep your toes dry !!

As I mentioned at the beginning of this post, after making the above fixes I discovered that I still had a slight problem when driving in very wet conditions which resulted in dampness of both front carpets but not really wet like before, hence my delay in posting this. As you can see at the beginning of SECTION 1, I did address this problem but in doing so, found evidence of previous water ingress from the roof section but which does not appear to be leaking now. My guess is that water may have been leaking through the radio antenna at the rear which on my VX appears to have been caulked by the previous owner. It would make sense that water could have pooled on top of the head liner, then found its way to each front windshield pillar. Just to put my mind at rest, I will pull the head liner another day and check for water damage. I'll let you know!

Hope you find this helpful!

Jayd-S

[Mile High VX]

Thanks for the excellent post and extensive work to help us all who have this issue.

Well done.

[Makocross]

Wow! Great job
Mike

[arcobarco]

Great information. Now I can't wait for the weather in Utah to cooperate.

[RodL]

Thank you for the great information and especially the PM letting me know it's here.

Rod

[RodL]

Thank you for the great information and especially the PM letting me know it's here.

Rod

[CatFish]

Very detailed and well done, also thanks for the PM letting me know you had posted you findings and fixes. I will be saving this in my VX how to reference library.

[Jayd-S]

ADDENDUM: April 17, 2016 - Since making this post and especially the post with photos on page 2, I have thoroughly checked for the source of water that appeared to be coming in through the roof. I had the headliner out and all side panels. First off, the head liner is curved, no water can pool above it. If water is entering through the roof rail brackets or the rear roof antenna, the carpets close to the side of the possible leak and directly below it, will be wet. The roof rail brackets are really strong, bolted solidly and with normal roof rack wear and tear, unlikely to leak.

Where I did find water coming in was at the top of the windshield to the driver's side where the sealant bead was thinner than the spacers used between the windshield and the frame. It may also have been possible that the sealant shrank over time. Anyhow, this allows water to run down into a reinforcement box section that runs from side to side at the front of the roof. Here the water can pool and with enough water could give you that sloshing sound and a wet carpet or foot when you drive around that first bend! If you parked with the slope of the road to the curb then water will not pool but simply drain from the box section onto the top of the front of the headliner where it will run along the headliner and down behind the front windshield pillar plastic trim and down to the front carpet on that side. See the photos I posted on page 2 of this thread Section 1, photos C and D. There you can see the watermarks.

The fix was simple! I ran a thin bead of wicking silicone along the outer and inner edges of the exterior windshield rubber trim, along the top and sides.

IF YOU HAVE A WET FRONT CARPET, I HIGHLY RECOMMEND YOU START BY CHECKING HERE FIRST BEFORE FOLLOWING ANY OF THE FURTHER REMEDIAL WORK THAT I DETAILED IN THIS THREAD. SIMPLY REMOVE THE FRONT WINDSHIELD PILLAR PLASTIC TRIM AND LOOK FOR WATER MARKS. KEEP YOUR FEET DRY !!!

Geoff
aka Jayd-S

[CatFish]

I had wet carpet in my old Trooper and it was leaking at the windshield pillar because it was rusted out in one area and not sealed good in another.