Thanks mile, I wasn't finding anything in search. Seems like allot of work to get this idea going and I don't have a welder(though I'd love an excuse to get one). I'm not huge into off roading but would using a manual winch, the ones that have a long bar for the crank, be the poor mans substitute for a winch? I'm not sure if that's a common practice for off roaders but I'd be just fine spending the thirty bucks and tossin that in the back if I knew it would work should I need it.