3.8L Series II w/ SC swap?

[44ficus44]

Did you really just asked me that? I thought I made it perfectly clear, that I prefer turbochargers to supercharger!

But I suspect that like most people, you do not bother with the destitution between turbo vs super chargers.

I have not yet turbocharged my VX. I have to complete two other car projects (converting my Eclipse Spyder from FWD - Auto to AWD - 5sp manual and then installing 4G63 Mitsu engine in Triumph TR7) before I can undertake the turbo VX project. But I started collecting the parts and AEM FIC is the first step in my "master plan".

And as I have said, I am often tempted with the LS4 conversion... But that will only happen if someone develops (and sells) a good starter mount option.

As far SMOG is concerned, forced induction is easier to pull off than LS4 swap, but in Mass, that is only a concern for another 2 years. After 15 years, they stop checking OBD2 codes, so you can get away with almost anything

Hihi thats me ... i did ask. For the same reason. I was gonna say what happened to the turbo option you were thinking of hajaha.

[bartmanS4]

Reviving this old thread for Thrasher.

[VXorado]

Reviving this old thread for Thrasher.

...ah yes. We've been waiting for you to take the plunge Scotty!

[thrashercharged]

So the 3800 FWD bolt pattern does not bolt directly to the 4L30e huh? Hmm - what bellhousing bolt pattern was on the 1st gen Troopers with the 2.8 V6? Was that a RWD pattern? I vaguely recall now - it's been a few years - that's why the 3.4L out of a F body was a popular swap (due to RWD) and not the FWD 60 deg V6's, right?

And the 3800 F bodies had a 4L60e with a removable bellhousing on them didn't they? Does our 4L30e have a removable or fixed bellhousing? So who makes an adapter to adapt between the GM FWD bolt pattern and the 4L30e? Cost?

The Northstars had a lot of head gasket issues and wouldn't they have the same bellhousing issue? Plus depending on the model year, most had the Siemans PCM and I don't know if anyone's reverse engineered that to program it.

The 3800 should fit better being smaller and it's durability is much better (once you address the intake issues on the L36). So just how weak is the 4L30e?

[Mile High VX]

So just how weak is the 4L30e?

I recall that it's only rated for 260 ft lbs of torque.

Numerous members here have had failures of this transmission so it has a poor reputation.

[thrashercharged]

Yeah, I know it's a weak tranny - I bought a 2002 Trooper with a bad tranny and haven't had time to dive into it yet - it's still parked at the shop.

So that 260 limit is just under the 280 ft-lbs output of the stock L67. I wonder what the Bimmer folks have done to improve the 4L30e. Once I have mine apart I guess I'll get a chance to see just how small the clutches and things are. But I'm not intending on ever putting slicks on a VX and taking it down the strip so the abuse shouldn't be as bad. I'm wondering if a shift kit and some higher friction clutches (don't know if Raybestos has any for this trans or not) and a bigger trans cooler will help it live.

I'm mainly interested in keeping the 4L30e just to make for an easier and cheaper swap and to keep the TOD as the TOD seems to be the heart of a VX. I assume the tailshaft of the 4L60e doesn't allow the TOD transfer case to fit?

[Leon R]

Guys, I was talking about Grand National 3.8, which uses different transmission pattern. Looks like FWD Buicks 3800's will fit.

But... considering that LS4 is CHEAP and is direct bolt up to Isuzu, why would you ever consider anything else?

[Triathlete]

Dans Amigo was quite a project. He no longer has it. Pretty much destroyed it in a wheeling trip....lots of damage and I think he parted it out instead of fixing. One thing broke and took out a lot of other stuff when it did.

[Leon R]

Actually, you left out #1 problem with LS4, it lacks provisions for starter mounting. Your other concerns are rather trivial, comparing to everything else that has to be done during a motor swap.

I have seen them as low as $500-$700. This one was 2 miles from my home:

http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item...d=181595245407

I am not sure if stock 3800 offers enough performance increase to warrant to be considered for a swap. You should be able to add force induction to 3.5 with similar results.

[thrashercharged]

Thanks for the link to Dan's Amigo. Does he post on this forum or only on 4x4wire?

How do people handle the starter mounting on the LS4? I suppose having a longer engine and having to weld up custom exhaust headers could be trivial.

My interest in the 3800s is to find the absolute cheapest and easiest swap to get a reliable Trooper/VX that's comparable or better on power and easy and cheap to maintain. I agree that a stock L36/L67 isn't a great power increase but that's not my main goal. I'm thinking of the best/cheapest alternative for saving the Troopers/VXs getting scrapped due to the 3.5 oiling issue. Forced induction on the 3.5 doesn't solve that! Near stock power would help the 4L30e too, and it seems like overhauling the trans during the engine swap and replacing the solenoids and doing some minor updates/upgrades to the 4L30e might make it reliable enough.

Since the Trooper/VX came with a V6, it just seems easier to drop another V6 in there but I must admit I haven't looked closely at how much room there is in front for a V8 - maybe there's so much room it's a non-issue, but I just figure an engine of similar dimensions as the 3.5L has got to be easier.

I'm not keen on the LS4 because (aside from the starter issue) I just personally don't know it well enough to know how to integrate it's control system into the Isuzu. Yeah, I know we can use aftermarket ECMs like Megasquirts but that just adds cost as one can just about always get the entire 3800 wiring harness and PCM thrown in for free. And since the Isuzu and L36/L67 both used the same GMPX style/series PCM with the same connectors (just change the colored plastic header to the right color ones) one could potentially re-pin and integrate the Isuzu and L36/L67 harnesses together and just about make that 3800 swap look factory.

Maybe I'm being naive since I haven't had the opportunity to attempt this swap yet, but I'm hoping the oil pan fits and F body exhaust manifolds bolt in perfectly, so the only custom thing to fabricate would be motor mounts and a U turn on the intake to turn it away from the firewall. Yeah, I know Holdens have a U turn (I was actually there when the guys initially mocked it up) but it turns the wrong way for us since their cars are RHD. I think our steering shaft would be in the way.

Anyway, I'm thinking the 3800 would be perfect for a really cheap swap that wouldn't cost much more than the cost of the engine + F body headers & related exhaust work + motor mounts + induction U turn mods + throttle cable mods + fuel line mods + misc wiring mods. That would be about as simple as any swap could be.

[Triathlete]

Unfortunately Dan is pretty much MIA on the Isuzu boards. When he did post it was on the 4x4 wire.

[Leon R]

LSx is THE most popular engine to swap into anything. Originally this was done because of its performance and relatively low price, now, however this engine has unbelievable amont of aftermarket to support engine swaps! That, alone, makes it a great engine to swap in!

As for starter, I saw two options we discussed them in LS4 threat:

http://vehicross.info/forums/showthread.php?t=24246

[tpunk]

I know this is a bit of an older thread, but if anyone need any info on the 3800-II that's actually an engine I'm very familiar with. I had a 2001 v6 firebird for years and was very active in the v6 community. It is imo one of the most reliable engines ever made. It is also a much better option than a series 1 these days. I can help dig up info on sourcing the Holden supercharger if anyone gets that far. Just know you need L67 heads for that as the injector bosses are in the head on the supercharged engines and in the intake manifold on the NA L36.

[ipd]

I'll cut against the grain and say that a DOHC 6g74 swap from a Montero would actually be an awesome idea--especially when you can bolt up all the stock twin-turbo bits from a GTO. You'd probably have to use the Mitsu trans if you mounted it transverse, but an adapter might be able to make the stock trans work long-ways. Don't listen to the armchair pundits. the 6G7x is a great engine.

[swanny]

I think my engine seized up on me last night (lack of oil, even though I just put in a couple quarts a couple weeks ago) It's in the shop now so it's not for sure yet. Anyway, need to start thinking about either a swap or selling the rig. Is the 3800 a good option? Would it be much more $$$ to do the LS4?

Mine is supercharged right now so losing that would suck, but at this point this vx has been nothing but a money pit (granted, my fault for wanting mods ) so I am not sure what to do.