ak-47 or ar-15?

[JHarris1385]

There seems to be an ever growing market of tactical pistols in the .22lr caliber.

From the Halo-like ridiculous US Firearms Zip
http://www.usfirearms.com/

To
Carl Walther IWI UZI
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=325645229



I do not have an AR or AK but have been reading this thread to learn more. I have always wanted one and now it seems I might need to fulfill that want sooner than later.

[spaceCADETzoom]

There seems to be an ever growing market of tactical pistols in the .22lr caliber.

From the Halo-like ridiculous US Firearms Zip
http://www.usfirearms.com/

To
Carl Walther IWI UZI
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=325645229



I do not have an AR or AK but have been reading this thread to learn more. I have always wanted one and now it seems I might need to fulfill that want sooner than later.

Just me, but Id steer clear completely. The prices in the evil black rifle realm are simply ridiculous. If I havent disuaded you, I would purposefully seek out MANUFACTUERS or builders (as opposed to gun stores) that have not raised their prices. Furthermore, I'd stockpile lower recievers...you can always buy upper recievers, it's only the lower thats the actual firearm. Lowers are still at their pre hysteria prices of under $300 from rguns. They're backlogged like 8 weeks, but at least they're not jerks like the world thats charging $600 for polymer lowersthat were $120 four weeks ago.

I'd wait until its settled (if ever). Either way, I'd get an SKS because over $1000 for an AK IS RIDICULOUS.

[spaceCADETzoom]

Well, I'd like to think Afghanistan the worst the "real world" has to offer. And there are still Lee Enfields from wwi in use to good effect. Hand to heart, guys...the mythical reliabilty of the AK is overblown. And if youre taling a "real world" with people who have not LIVED with their rifles as trained riflemen, I guarntee the enfield would serve you better than any self-loading rifle. Think of it this way: what would you consider more idiot proof and reliable, a pump shotgun or an autoloading shotgun? Which would you give to your trusted neighbor, who's maybe not as well versed in guns, in a SHTF situation? And price? before the current hysteria, an ar15 could be had for $600. A good Ak is more than that. Unless youre talking a WASR...in which case I laugh at your idea of "reliable."

[Scott Larson]

My pre-ban Norinco AK47 with screw-on AK74 muzzle break was $325.00 in 1994 dollars. My post-ban Colt AR15 with bull barrel was $980.00 in 1995 dollars. Both were bought new and both have been thoroughly wrung out over the years in filthy as well as meticulously maintained conditions with a wide variety of ammo and I've yet to have one misfire with the AK and I've short stroked more rounds then I care to remember with the AR. In my real world, that mythical AK reliability is no myth, just sayin'...

[spaceCADETzoom]

My pre-ban Norinco AK47 with screw-on AK74 muzzle break was $325.00 in 1994 dollars. My post-ban Colt AR15 with bull barrel was $980.00 in 1995 dollars. Both were bought new and both have been thoroughly wrung out over the years in filthy as well as meticulously maintained conditions with a wide variety of ammo and I've yet to have one misfire with the AK and I've short stroked more rounds then I care to remember with the AR. In my real world, that mythical AK reliability is no myth, just sayin'...

Been debating on whether to hit reply, because I don't want this to devolve into a gun forum. BUt, oh well.

I guess we can agree "real world" is based on anecdotal evidence and personal experience through a straw. My straw is being raised with everything from norincos and maadis through wasr's, yugos and parts bin century's. And of course bushmasters, dpms, one colt, noveske, and countless smaller shops for ar15s (even a few plumcrazy plastic ones!). And to top it off the AK list, the chinese, and indeterminate ak's in Iraq and Afghanistan--utilized in over 35 months of day-to-day living and firing both personally and training BRM to local nationals. Personal experience of the M16a1 all the way through fresh-from-the-box FN M16A3, M4, et al. Both the AK and AR in all conditions from my backyard to "two-way" firing ranges. Had my fair share of failures all around. Few stoppages personal AK or Ar15, in "the backyard," none I actually recall dramatically or specifically. Plenty when I was using weapons on-the-job though, when I was firing something that I didn't "live" with (i.e. qualifying with a weapon I didn't maintain), both AK and AR. Failures among mine privately owned (or my dad's) ran notably less but there were still bad AKs to bad AR15s (olympic comes to mind, dpms too). I'm not naive enough, though, to think all DPMS rifles, for example, are terrible, considering my experience with them was from 20 year old products.

I guess my real world tells me different than the simple "AK GOOD, AR BAD."

I can tell you there's no price advantage right now for anything, because I think anyone who spends more than $1000 for an AK or (off the shelf) AR15 is nuts. But 2010-2012 prices of AR15/AK, on the low end, I don't see it substantially better for the AK. You were looking at $400 WASRs which weren't worth it. ANd $600 AR15s, which were. THen you had $1000 Arsenal AKs which were on par with the AR15, but now you've lost that price advantage.

I think the 1994 prices are off topic, unless you want to bring in the fact at that time you could buy CRATES of Russian tula SKSes for the price of your one Norinco... Either way, there are $2000 AKs AND AR15s being sold right now.

[JHarris1385]

I am primarily a shotgun skeet/hunt gun owner with a Walther PPKs for conceal.

Only considered getting a .22lr pistol just for fun.

But like I said I really am considering buying an AR of sort, but not at these prices.
What sites would you recommend?

I have always heard the AK is neither great at one thing or bad at one thing...thus reliable. However, the near endless possibilities of the AR platform would keep me interested longer.

[Scott Larson]

I am primarily a shotgun skeet/hunt gun owner with a Walther PPKs for conceal.

Only considered getting a .22lr pistol just for fun.

But like I said I really am considering buying an AR of sort, but not at these prices.
What sites would you recommend?

I have always heard the AK is neither great at one thing or bad at one thing...thus reliable. However, the near endless possibilities of the AR platform would keep me interested longer.

As spacecadet said earlier, building your own AR is an affordable and doable option. Parts are readily available through a host of online retailers and the only part you are registering is the lower reciever, which means that has to be shipped to an FFL dealer or purchased directly through one, everything else can be shipped to your door. Shotgun News has a vast wealth of info and suppliers for everything you need. There's also the benefit of knowing your rifle inside and out because you built it...

[spaceCADETzoom]

I am primarily a shotgun skeet/hunt gun owner with a Walther PPKs for conceal.

Only considered getting a .22lr pistol just for fun.

But like I said I really am considering buying an AR of sort, but not at these prices.
What sites would you recommend?

I have always heard the AK is neither great at one thing or bad at one thing...thus reliable. However, the near endless possibilities of the AR platform would keep me interested longer.

It's tough to find anything in stock now. http://rguns.net/ is still selling, but they're backlogged something like two months. I only bring them up because they haven't raised prices. I'd suggest staying with complete lowers, because at teh end of the day, lower parts kits for stripped lowers bumps the price back up to a complete one anyway.

Ammo is scarce, too. Have you thought of those AR15 pattern 22 rifles? M&P15/22? Slightly easier to find and the ammo is still cheap and available-ish.

[JHarris1385]

Thanks!

Good thread. Any and all other advice and preferences that follows will be appreciated.

[FlyingV77]

Ford or Chevy? its all the same. It comes down to personal preference. Take care of your weapon and it will take care of you.

[Ldub]

Take care of your weapon and it will take care of you.

Can I use Marvel Mystery Oil on my smoke wagon? or is that a different thread.....

Sorry...

Must...drink...more...coffee...

[WormGod]

Ford or Chevy? its all the same. It comes down to personal preference. Take care of your weapon and it will take care of you.

Pretty much.

I have put maybe 3k rounds through my AR since I had it and it has only jammed once, which was remedied in less than 5secs. Though, I have a few mechanical upgrades to improve operation and I clean it more than I bathe (almost true).

Admittedly though, my Ruger 10/22 is my baby. So very far in a different category, but she is as smooth, comfortable, and fun as any plinker can be. And ya, cheap to shoot to boot!

Local MD shops, good luck finding any AR or AK platform rifle. Let alone 7.62 or 5.56 rounds. Heck, I can't even find any .223, and when I do, it's garbage!!! In the extremely rare occasion you can spot one of thje above listed platforms or ammo, you are looking at a near 150-200% mark-up. Gauging due to recent events.

[Ldub]

Pretty much.


Local MD shops, good luck finding any AR or AK platform rifle. Let alone 7.62 or 5.56 rounds. Heck, I can't even find any .223, and when I do, it's garbage!!! In the extremely rare occasion you can spot one of thje above listed platforms or ammo, you are looking at a near 150-200% mark-up. Gauging due to recent events.

At least that part is pretty much over, though 22 ammo is still hard to find. I'm seeing AR uppers, lowers, & complete rifles, as well as ammo in the local haberdasheries...

Not just "gun" shops either, Fleet/Farm, Wal-Mart, etc...

[WormGod]

It all matters little to me now. Since O'Malley (Gov of MD, and pretty much the same douchebag Gov from Walking Dead) decided to ban nearly everything here, mandate fingerprinting and weapon training, and kicking gun manufacturers out of MD (what choice did they really have?), we have been pretty dry of everything. Local gun shops are slowly closing doors since the best they can do is sell posters of guns.

My AR has been resting quietly in the closet. Leaning against the many full ammo cans. Just hoping eventually this lame !@# ban/regulations crap goes away in the near future. Don't get me wrong, it really isn't THAT restricting since I am grandfathered, but it has really hurt the local gun shop and range business.

I did however manage to get a ZK-22 conversion for my 10/22 before that !@#$ storm happened (not like it falls into the banned items list). Makes my plinker look like a true Zombie Killer now.



BTW, GunBot is the best! Been using it since I can remember. Life saver.

[BigSwede]

I don't think I would buy either one right now...the market is crazy. Wait a year or so, no sense in paying hundreds more than it is worth right now.