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Thread: Aluminum Radiator

  1. #1
    Member Since
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    2001, Silver, Vehicross, Supercharged, 0492, Sold 3/20/2012
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    Aluminum Radiator

    I have not needed additional cooling since I moved to Oregon, but I had this nice prototype radiator I had built some years back and finally decided to make the upgrade.

    The Ron Davis Vehicross aluminum radiator was copied from an after market stock radiator supplied to Ron Davis Racing. The build sheet is 5225, for reference.

    The core thickness is increased to 2”. (Like a 4 tube copper core)

    The plan was to omit the stock clutch fan. A dual fan shroud was fabricated. An electric dual fan controller must be added. Two different diameter and thickness fans are used to fit side by side and maximize the fan cross section. By chance, the larger fan diameter, with a deeper larger motor, was located on the driver side. This conflicts with my S/C idler pulley and belt path. Without the S/C, it might fit. We rotated the shroud 180 degrees and put the smaller thinner fan opposite the S/C idler pulley and it just touched. Still no good.
    BTW, If the stock fan is removed, ¼” spacers must be used on the four fan studs with nuts, since the studs are not fully threaded. The studs hold on the water pump drive pulley.

    My installation cannot use the new fan shroud and electric fans until the shroud is modified to reduce the overall thickness.
    In the end, the stock fan was used without any shroud. This is not the best. The stock, or any fan, will pull air from the easiest direction, which is not through the radiator. A shroud forces the fan to pull air through the fins.

    Two threaded holes in the top of the tank (Facing up) are used for a hold down bracket. A proper bracket must still be fabricated

    The current bracket uses the one of the stock radiator frame holes nearest the radiator and one of the two holes on the top of the radiator. A rubber “Snapper” vibration mounts are snapped around the new bracket. This is a muffler attachment part.

    Car Prep-
    Cut off two small screw ends on the right and left of the radiator. They are about 3” down from the top. Use an abrasive wheel. These screw ends would rub on the radiator front side edges.

    Remove the adhesive taped rubber strips on the radiator cross frame at the top. Re-tape and replace after the installation. This spaces the radiator from touching the steel frame.

    Dent the hood liner, if required, to clear the radiator cap. The revised design will have a lower neck than my prototype.

    I used two new rubber-mounting biscuits at the bottom. The 10-year-old biscuits were still soft, so replacements were not needed.

    Use a ¼” nylon wire retainer on the OEM trans fluid pipe as it crosses the bottom radiator tank. A bolt boss is provided.

    The wire bundles on both sides, low near the radiator, must be pulled to the side to clear.

    On the passenger side, an unused bracket, low next to the radiator, is removed with two bolts. This is next to the lower hose tube.

    The top and bottom radiator hoses must be shortened (Cut back) about ½” to ¾” due to the thicker core. If not, the hose is pushed against the engine.

    Inspect for any contact points after installation. Aluminum is soft.

    Install the stock plastic fan shroud if using the stock fan. The shroud assembles from top and bottom parts. The Ron Davis redesign will have threaded bosses in a position to bolt on the plastic shroud in two places on the top and have slots in two places at the bottom. These mounting points are the same for the aluminum shroud.



    Required Mods to the Ron Davis Radiator Prototype -

    I have sent Ron Davis these revised specs.

    Lower the fill neck ¼” or more. The cap ear hits the hood and requires a dent in the hood liner to clear.

    The driver’s side auto trans fitting is currently (Original RD design) a M14x1.00. This is wrong and not OEM. The after market radiator used for a fabrication model had a non-OEM fitting and got copied incorrectly. The correct male threaded fitting with flair bevel, is an M14x1.50. This fitting is required to mate to the OEM brass fitting and 90 degree tube that routes the trans fluid inlet next to the outlet. (Both are hose barbed) The trans fluid outlet is an SAE ¼ female pipe thread boss on the passenger side. Ron Davis supplies an aluminum ¼ male pipe to ¼ hose barb fitting for this attachment.

    The RD fan shroud attaches to the top of the radiator tank using two threaded bosses. If the driver side boss is moved 2 1/8” toward the outside of the radiator (A center to center distance between the bosses of 13 ¾”), the stock plastic fan shroud will bolt on, if an electric fan shroud is not used. The passenger side boss is correctly positioned.

    The bottom mount for the fan shroud is by two slotted brackets on the radiator bottom tank. These brackets are positioned to accept the stock plastic lower fan shroud tabs without any change.

    If you are ordering a Ron Davis Vehicross radiator, verify that the changes I have describe here are included the design drawings. Communications sometimes break down. Trust but verify. (Ronald Regan)

    Photos in the MODIFICATIONS gallery,

    Roy
    Last edited by newthings : 07/24/2011 at 02:37 PM

  2. #2
    Member Since
    Dec 2008
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    Former owner 2001, Foxfire Red, #0663
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    Wohoo!! Ron Davis Racing has finished the spec sheet or build sheet on my aluminum radiator and it's now in manufacturing, will be about 2-3 weeks. It continues to have episodes where the temp gets almost to the red zone after a long 15 miles climb up my big hill, with A/C and high air temp, so this will be a welcome replacement.

    A HUGE thank you to you Roy (newthings) for helping me on this and sending your old radiator to them etc...

    Bill is still working on getting a quote for an aluminum shroud and bracket. He needs some other guy to do it and he's been out or something.

    The brief details are:
    • Two rows of 1" tubes
    • The fins front to back will be 2.25" vs. the OEM of a hair short of 1.5"
    • Came in a little under his first ballpark estimate of $800...
      Total $676.02 including tax. OEM from Merlin would be $433.82, so I think it's pretty reasonable based on the increased cooling capacity I'll get, especially living in Arizona.
    • I get to pick it up in person since they're in the Phoenix area, so I saved on shipping. Plus I can pick up Roy's parts and ship them back to him myself.
    • I'm going to ask what the price would be if any others want to purchase the same.
    • Of course now I need to get it in$talled too.

    I'm definitely a happy girl! It's going to look so cool .....and be so cool....
    Of course pics to follow....


    Detailed specs on my Ron Davis radiator-
    • Has more cooling capacity than OEM
    • No plastic parts, all aluminum
    • RD Part number 1-24RO9397
    • Can call Bill Williamson at RD and order it with that number. He's SUPER helpful and explains everything in great detail.
    • About $600.
    • Bill Williamson
      Ron Davis Racing Products, Inc.
      7334 North 108th Avenue
      Glendale, AZ. 85307
      Tel- 623-877-5000 Ext.16
      Fax- 623-877-5001
    • http://www.vehicross.info/forums/sho...72&postcount=5



    MORE specs on my RD radiator:
    Last edited by VX KAT : 05/17/2014 at 05:27 PM
    VX KAT
    ....the adventure BEGINS ANEW! ...2015......
    Remember that life is not measured in the breaths you take, but rather in the moments that take your breath away.

  3. #3
    Member Since
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    1999 Ex-Ebony..Fully Line-X'd ..0189...THE "ORW".....matching Line-X'd Trailer made from a written off 2001 Ebony.
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    OK..but I never had a too hot issue.

    But then again...600lbs of skid plate..

    ...then all that F/glass!



    Ya..OK..I'm givin' you a touch of grief Kat!



    Jo
    VX.info...PLEASE SUPPORT THIS SITE WITH YOUR VOLUNTARY $20 DONATION...
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  4. #4
    Member Since
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoFotoz View Post
    OK..but I never had a too hot issue.

    But then again...600lbs of skid plate..

    ...then all that F/glass!



    Ya..OK..I'm givin' you a touch of grief Kat!



    Jo

    it's 150 lbs of skid plate, not 600! Needer needer needer!

    Interestingly, I talked to my offroad/mechanic at length about all possible causes, especially discussing all that others here mentioned in Zadam's thread. The skids being #1 in my mind as possible cause. He says the radiator itself is the ONLY thing that disappates heat and the skids have nothing to do with it. Plus he pointed out I had the skids on for 1 1/2 yrs w/o any overheating issue...um, good point....

    He went through several other of the possibilities and why or why not he thought it could be it.

    Yes, we could have just flushed or rodded it out like Zadam did and see what happens, and that may have worked, but I wanted to actually increase my cooling ability so that I "might" actually be able to run with A/C on when off road in warm temps.....as heat is my #1 enemy and makes my body turn into a slug....well, um,..... a bigger slug than normal. Probably won't be able to do it all the time, depending on the speed I'm going on the trail, but I thought it was worth it....now Dave....well, maybe not so much....

  5. #5
    Member Since
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    Yah! My Ron Davis Racing radiator is now done and installed.
    It looks awesome, and the welds are a thing of beauty!

    • It has about 3x the cooling capacity and the entire unit is aluminum, there's no plastic.

    • The fins are 2.25" deep vs. the OEMs of a little shy of 1.5".

    • It has 2 rows of 1" tubes.

    • The temp needle now rides about 2 tick below "halfway", whereas it was just 1 tick below before.


    • The OEM front bracket had to be modified slightly in the angle.


    • The OEM shroud had to be modified a bit on the top to clear the fan blades. They're in the same position, but end up further inside the OEM shroud because the radiator is a little deeper than the OEM, pushing the shroud back a bit. My mechanic just had to cut some of the plastic off the top of the shroud. (We priced a custom aluminum shroud from RD.......it would be at LEAST $400+...nevermind.....)


    • This was a little over $600 for the unit (plus some $70 for packaging materials). It was only about $200 more than an OEM....and I decided to splurge!


    Will have to wait for a good hot AZ summer day to really test it out!

    Again, a HUGE thank you to "newthings" for all his help on this and helping me bring this to a reality
    *********************************************























    Last edited by VX KAT : 12/01/2011 at 09:49 PM

  6. #6
    Member Since
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    2001, Proton Yellow, #0580
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    Hey Kat, very nice but I don't like the way your guy cut the shroud. I know removing it completely decreases cooling capability but I wonder how much you lose with that hole up there? Maybe you can fab up a cover for the hole that the blades won't hit?

    -- John
    John Eaton
    Original Owner
    2001 Proton Yellow #580
    Atlanta GA

    http://wildtoys.com/vehicross/
    http://vehicross.blogspot.com/

    "Metaphors be with you"

  7. #7
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    I saw it the other day. I don't think that hole will cause any appreciable decrease in airflow through the radiator. If she fixes it, it will only be for aesthetics. I gave her some cladding material that she could use to cover the hole though.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    Put a smiley after you say that Bub.

  8. #8
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    Are these going to be readily available or built to order? Or, is it just a one-off?

    What's the weight comparison to the OEM or aftermarket equivalent? (I have some GM model since my old one went POP but it's the same really) Anywhere I can shave weight, I am a happy camper.

    Have to agree though, that shroud needs some TLC. Also curious, since the shroud has been slightly relocated, I wonder if this would affect the S/C belt. Highly doubt it, but just thinking out loud.
    Gary Noonan
    '01 S/C VX / '18 Forester XT

  9. #9
    Member Since
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    Hi Gary,
    I have not put on the stock shroud. My rad was made for a Davis electric
    dual fan shroud and the mounting points are not the same as stock. New unit will look like Sue's. I can get away with a lot of fan flow loss in my climate, but I am still thinking about using the stock plastic route for safety. I removed the stock fan and found my electric fans hit the S/C belt, so it's back to the stock shroud with some cut outs for the top as well as other locations to clear the S/C belt. My rad did not have the notch for the stock hold down.

    Davis can build a copy of Sue's unit if you order one.

    Sue, you might take some modeling clay or a handful of wet paper towels and close the hood on the rad cap to verify clearance. I cannot tell if RD lowered the pipe, as requested. Looks good. A bit of file work will spiff up the shroud hole.
    Cheers, Roy

  10. #10
    Member Since
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    I may be interested in this bigger radiator. Sue, I'd like to see if it fixes your engine temp problems during the summer. I've always had problems with my engine temp during 90F+ summer days with AC running. The engine temp climbs way up until I turn off the AC & it drops like a rock back to the normal operating temp... its strange.

  11. #11
    Member Since
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    As to weight, I would guess 3 lbs more than stock and almost a gallon more in fluid at 8 lbs/gal. Total guess at 10lbs. We could start a lottery.
    Roy

  12. #12
    Member Since
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    2001, PROTON YELLOW, VehiCROSS, 1451
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    I'm wondering for those of you having overheating problems if going to a lower temperature "themostat" may be worthwhile??? Our OEM factory VX thermostat is rated at 170-degrees. During an internet search, the lowest temperature aftermarket thermostat I could find for the VX was 160-degrees (see "link" below).

    http://www.autopartswarehouse.com/sk...gs+Best+Seller

    Perhaps changing to a 160-degree thermostat may help.


  13. #13
    Member Since
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    Quote Originally Posted by Riff Raff View Post
    I'm wondering for those of you having overheating problems if going to a lower temperature "themostat" may be worthwhile??? Our OEM factory VX thermostat is rated at 170-degrees. During an internet search, the lowest temperature aftermarket thermostat I could find for the VX was 160-degrees (see "link" below).

    http://www.autopartswarehouse.com/sk...gs+Best+Seller

    Perhaps changing to a 160-degree thermostat may help.

    Thats a good idea and is worth looking more into. Too bad the thermostat is at the bottom of the engine . Its almost worth spending $600 on a bigger radiator just to not deal with pulling the engine apart.

    Also, the torqflo fan clutch works very well at cooling the engine. It makes the engine sound like a semi (all fan sound) and pulls a noticable amount of power from the engine. I couldn't handle the sound after a couple months and replaced it with a another brand.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by VXorado View Post
    Too bad the thermostat is at the bottom of the engine .
    Huh??? Are you absolutely sure the VX Thermostat is located on the bottom of the engine (I've never heard of that before on any type of automotive engine)???

    Please see the engine diagram lay-out in Post #6 of the below thread by member "Deer Magnet". Part #1 (labeled "NSS" ~ aka Thermostat & gasket #66) of Section B shows that section B is mounted top-front-center of the engine block, and in VX-KAT's pictures of this thread show that it's located directly underneath the front center air snorkel coming from the air cleaner at the very top-front-center of the engine (not bottom of engine).

    http://www.vehicross.info/forums/sho...threadid=21611

    Unless I'm mistaken; changing a thermostat on a VX is very easy and couldn't be more simplier, as it is located top-front-center of engine within easy reach.


  15. #15
    Member Since
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    Wrench

    Quote Originally Posted by Riff Raff View Post
    Huh???

    Unless I'm mistaken; changing a thermostat on a VX is very easy and couldn't be more simplier, as it is located top-front-center of engine within easy reach.
    Ummmmmm...not so much

    I think he means under the intake manifold, which it is. (go pop your hood)

    I've only ever heard of one person saying he was able to change the thermostat without removing the intake manifold, & he said it was such an undertaking that he would have pulled the intake & all the peripheral what-not, were he to do it again.

    Also, that's the only way to be sure that all the O-rings etc are in place & properly sealed.

    Since a pretty good percentage of 6VE1's prolly have their orig heater hoses, O-rings & intake gaskets intact, it's prolly worth pulling the intake....

    Suzee, that rad is a thing of beauty....

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