Trouble with LED Fog Lamps

[vt_maverick]

Update: I've had the xenons in for almost a week now with no problems. Autolumination received and tested the LEDs I returned yesterday, and they still believe something happened to them (likely a voltage surge) after installation.

I'm a big believer in the value of integrity in business, so I filled him in on what I'd found out over the last week and offered to pay for the replacement LEDs. He thanked me but said he wanted to stick to our original deal, which I think shows an amazing amount of character. So last night I asked for his advice on what to buy for all my bulbs (markers, blinkers, brake lights, maps lights) and should hear back today with a list of part numbers (I'll post the list here for reference). The guy even offered to ship the new bulbs in the same box as the replacement LEDs to save me on shipping.

Hopefully I'll get everything installed next weekend and post pics. I'm very impressed with Autolumination's customer service, and although you can buy similar sets for a few bucks less on eBay, I'd say it's worth a little extra to work with these guys.

[Grif]

Excellent news, way to follow up Mav!

[vt_maverick]

Replaced the fog lamps, "triangle" fender markers, and rear quarter panel markers with LEDs this weekend with major help from Billy (yellowgizmo99). Following my escapade of burning out fog light LEDs every few hours, I ordered what Autoillumination terms "LED protectors" this time around. (They're basically just resistors that you attach to the ground wire coming from each socket.) Rather than using the simple snap-together connectors, Billy insisted that we "do it right" and solder and heat-shrink wrap the connections instead. So that's two connections per bulb that have to be soldered, which adds up to a much longer installation process. It should be noted that you can install the LEDs without the protectors, but if you ever have any sort of spike in your electrical system you're likely to fry your LEDs, which are certainly more expensive to replace than regular filament bulbs.

Here's a list of what I now have installed and links to the product website:

Parts List
LEDs
Fog Lamps: 25 Led SMT Tower III (2)
Amber Triangle Markers: 9 Led SMT Tower II (Amber) (2)
Rear Fender Markers: 9 Led SMT Tower II (Red) (2)
LED Protectors (6)



I was planning on upgrading the turn signals and brake lights as well, but aside from the fact that it would have eaten up even more of Billy's weekend (not to mention piss off my beautiful wife), I couldn't really determine exactly what I needed to buy. Here's what Autolumination wrote back when I asked them about turn signals:

With many flashers, leds will cause the turns signals to flash rapidly, or not flash at all. If using leds for turn signal applications, or in vehicles with bulb-out warning systems, like Audi, Volvo, Mercedes, BMW and others, you may need to add load equalizers. For led turn signals, you can change the flasher out using one of our new patented combination led/oem bulb flashers if we have one that fits your vehicle. Unfortunately, there are no application charts for the flashers. The simplest way is to match the blades of the one you have to the images on the web page to see if we have one that matches. You can find the flasher by switching on the turn signals and finding where the clicking sound is coming from. If we do not have an led flasher that matches, use one 6 ohm load equalizer installed across the - ground wire and the + turn signal wire feeding each led bulb. Use two 6 ohm equalizers for two front, or two rear led turn signal bulbs. If you have four led turn signal bulbs in the front or rear, use two 3 ohm and position the load equalizer across the wire that feeds both bulbs. In some cases, if the front and read turn signal bulbs are powered from the same circuit, one 3 ohm on each side will take care of two led turn signal bulbs, one front and one rear. The only way to know is to try it and see. One 6 ohm at each led turn signal bulb always will work though. Place one load equalizer at each led turn signal bulb. For turn signal led bulbs, the equalizer must be spliced across the - ground wire and the + turn signal wire feeding each led bulb.

More details on load equalizers can be found at:
http://autolumination.com/equalizers.htm

Clear as mud right?

[etlsport]

for your turn signals, i dont think its really worth the effort to replace the flasher module. its easier to just get a 6ohm resistor for each bulb (or a 3 ohm resistor across the front turn signals because its easier to work behind the front bumper than in the rear tail light area)

from what i hear, our flasher is a pita to replace

[Junster]

The loose ground may have been the LED problem all along. Loose ground can cause a surge. I live on a boat and 80% of electrical problems I've had all lead back to corroded grounds. The local hardware guy has a spray on product called "Corrosion X" It is amazing. Stops the corrosion, cleans up old corrosion, leaves a lasting film the inhibits future problems. Only problem is his little hardware store is the only place I've ever seen it. Works great on battery terminals too. I'll ask him if he has a brochure that maybe has a URL in it.

BTW, Etl engineers also believe when it does break it's a maintenance issue, lol

[vt_maverick]

Riff - Was doing some research and just noticed your edit to this post. Very weird, I couldn't find the Feit bulb on their website either so HD must have discontinued it sometime between when I bought it and you researched it. But as it turns out Lowe's does carry the same bulb in their stores. Here's the link:

http://www.lowes.com/pd_90663-75774-...eit%20Electric

So now you can go out and pick yourself up a set of xenon bulbs instead! That way we can both have a 4-pack of Malibu bulbs wasting away on our garage shelf!

I got both the Malibu and xenon bulbs at Home Depot. The xenon bulbs were made by "Feit Electric" and cost $4.95 each (ouch). The Malibu's were $4.95 for a 4-pack (xenon cost hurts even more now). Depending on vendor, the LED + protector solution will probably run around $30.

Good info, VT. Based upon your photo's, I'm leaning towards the brighter Xenon, as opposed to the less bright Malibu. After a quick search on the HomeDepot website, I found the exact item. Below is the Home Depot info:

Brand: Lithonia Lighting
Wattage: 18 Watt (12 volt)
Type: Xenon, Wedge-Base
Count Per Package: Two(2) Each
Model Number: UCX 2LP M12
Manufacturer Number: 290713
Internet Number: 100626333
Home Depot Price: $16.96 (2-Pack)



EDIT: Here's the story--- so; after seeing the Xenon lamps on the Home Depot website, I then drive down to my local Home Depot to make my purchase of the Lithonia Xenon's for $16.96 (2-Pack... or $8.50 per each bulb). I can't find the Xenon's anywhere in the store, but immediately see the 18-watt Malibu's for only $4.97 (4-Pack... or $1.25 per each bulb). I speak to the Home Depot salesman, and he informs me that the Lithonia 18-watt Xenon's are available "on-line only" at the Home Depot website and are not carried in any Home Depot stores throughout the USA.

OK; let me get this straight-- you want me to pay $8.50 per bulb for the Xenon's, jack-up my credit card bill to make an "on-line" purchase, still have to pay my state sales tax since there is a Home Depot in my state, pay additional shipping charges for delivery, plus wait for a week for them to finally be delivered??? WTF??? Or, I can buy the in-stock 18-watt Malibu 4-Pack for only $1.25 per bulb using cold cash, then go home and immediately install them in my VX fog lights and still have two(2) spare bulbs to put in my glove box. It doesn't take a genious to quickly figure out that the 18-watt MALIBU lights is the only way to go!!! I just installed the MALIBU lights in my VX fog lights, and they look simply stunning!!!

[LittleBeast]

I used to be a big supporter of Autolumination stuff, but all their stuff starting blinking after only a few months, so I started looking at other products and companies and I have found that pretty much the only LEDs worth their money are: V-LEDs
www.v-leds.com

[Riff Raff]

I have found that pretty much the only LEDs worth their money are: V-LEDs
www.v-leds.com

Ryan--- thanx for sharing the website link!!! Yes, the V-LEDs website has some pretty cool LED bulbs in many different colors. However, for a 194-series LED bulb (wedge-type) that fits in our factory VX fog light housings I have some negative concerns, they are:

194-series (wedge-type):

o $10 each per LED bulb versus $1.25 each for the 18-watt MALIBU.
o Low Brightness Output Wattage for LED (2-Watt & 5-Watt) versus 18-Watt High Brightness Output for MALIBU.
o The 194-series LED bulbs are mostly used as showcar "marker" lights and do not project a viable projector light beam onto the road surface versus MALIBU has 18 watts of illumination power to be "projector" beam in VX fog light housings that illuminate the road surface.
o LED's may require a seperate "recifier" be added within the wiring circuitry in order to operate versus MALIBU is simply plug-n-play incandescent like OEM without any modification to factory wiring/circuitry.

For me, I'll stick with the much cheaper and much brighter plug-n-play MALIBU 18-watt bulbs without any of the circuitry hassles that sometimes come with LED's.

[vt_maverick]

I agree with the points below, and can definitely see why someone would want to stick with brighter incandescent bulbs.

o $10 each per LED bulb versus $1.25 each for the 18-watt MALIBU.
o Low Brightness Output Wattage for LED (2-Watt & 5-Watt) versus 18-Watt High Brightness Output for MALIBU.
o LED's may require a seperate "recifier" be added within the wiring circuitry in order to operate versus MALIBU is simply plug-n-play incandescent like OEM without any modification to factory wiring/circuitry.

For me, I'll stick with the much cheaper and much brighter plug-n-play MALIBU 18-watt bulbs without any of the circuitry hassles that sometimes come with LED's.

I will disagree with this statement however. Neither LEDs nor the Malibus/Xenons are "viable projector light beams." If your goal truly is additional illumination in support of driving, you'd be much better served to buy real fog lights and fit them into the OEM fog lamp recess. The work recently done by yellowgizmo99 is a good example of a more "viable" lighting option.

o The 194-series LED bulbs are mostly used as showcar "marker" lights and do not project a viable projector light beam onto the road surface versus MALIBU has 18 watts of illumination power to be "projector" beam in VX fog light housings that illuminate the road surface.

[vt_maverick]

I used to be a big supporter of Autolumination stuff, but all their stuff starting blinking after only a few months, so I started looking at other products and companies and I have found that pretty much the only LEDs worth their money are: V-LEDs
www.v-leds.com

Did you install their resistor / "LED protector" kit? I wonder if a power spike might have caused the problem. Could be that the V-LEDs have a protector built into the bulb.

Food for thought...

[etlsport]

Ryan--- thanx for sharing the website link!!! Yes, the V-LEDs website has some pretty cool LED bulbs in many different colors. However, for a 194-series LED bulb (wedge-type) that fits in our factory VX fog light housings I have some negative concerns, they are:

194-series (wedge-type):

o $10 each per LED bulb versus $1.25 each for the 18-watt MALIBU.
o Low Brightness Output Wattage for LED (2-Watt & 5-Watt) versus 18-Watt High Brightness Output for MALIBU.
o The 194-series LED bulbs are mostly used as showcar "marker" lights and do not project a viable projector light beam onto the road surface versus MALIBU has 18 watts of illumination power to be "projector" beam in VX fog light housings that illuminate the road surface.
o LED's may require a seperate "recifier" be added within the wiring circuitry in order to operate versus MALIBU is simply plug-n-play incandescent like OEM without any modification to factory wiring/circuitry.

For me, I'll stick with the much cheaper and much brighter plug-n-play MALIBU 18-watt bulbs without any of the circuitry hassles that sometimes come with LED's.

Yes, the LEDs are much more expensive, but they also match HIDs much better as far as aesthetics are concerned. This is important to some of us, I have tried many many options both incandescent and LED to match my HIDs.

As far as your light output concerns, its not as extreme as you make it sound. The 18w on the malibu bulbs is not a measured light output, its a measure of how much power they draw. Incandescent bulbs are only about 12-25% efficient so they are probably on par with the higher quality LEDs as far as light output is concerned. The way the front of our factory housings are etched, you will never get a "beam" of light out of them anyway just as VT pointed out

[LittleBeast]

Neither LEDs nor the Malibus/Xenons are "viable projector light beams." If your goal truly is additional illumination in support of driving, you'd be much better served to buy real fog lights and fit them into the OEM fog lamp recess.

Exactly, our factory fogs were never intended to project light at all just simply act as a "parking light" really, I thought that was obvious. The LEDs are desirable because of their matching color to HID bulbs in our headlights, purely cosmetic. I have Hella Micro DE fog lights with 6K HID bulbs in them for fogs and they are bright enough to drive in total darkness without the headlights on.

Did you install their resistor / "LED protector" kit? I wonder if a power spike might have caused the problem. Could be that the V-LEDs have a protector built into the bulb.

You are correct, almost all of V-LEDs products have the protectors built in, hence the quality and reliability of their products is greatly increased.

Yes, the LEDs are much more expensive, but they also match HIDs much better as far as aesthetics are concerned. This is important to some of us, I have tried many many options both incandescent and LED to match my HIDs.

As far as your light output concerns, its not as extreme as you make it sound. The 18w on the malibu bulbs is not a measured light output, its a measure of how much power they draw. Incandescent bulbs are only about 12-25% efficient so they are probably on par with the higher quality LEDs as far as light output is concerned. The way the front of our factory housings are etched, you will never get a "beam" of light out of them anyway just as VT pointed out

Exactly

[LittleBeast]

http://vleds.wordpress.com/2011/03/0...spiking-vleds/

[vt_maverick]

The V-LEDs do look promising - seems like the right option going forward. But I do kind of like the "in-line" resistor method that Billy just installed for me, since now I don't have to worry about spikes in any LEDs I buy. Extra trouble for sure, but it does seem like there's value there.

[LittleBeast]

....since now I don't have to worry about spikes in any LEDs I buy.

But if you buy all of your future LED's from V-LEDs you would never have to worry about that even without the so called "fix" ;-)

I just installed the V-LEDs in my brake lights, horn lights, side front markers, and license plate lights tonight and I had trouble with the license plate ones since you can only have 2 out of the 4 contacts touching so I had to work some magic with some electrical tape, but even when I was basically shorting out the circuit the V-LEDs held up because of their build quality and protection built in. I am sold, their stuff is worth the price! WAY brighter than the autolumination LEDs they replaced, not even a comparison, it was like night and day, I will put some pictures up shortly.