VX for sale, though has problems...take the chance?

[MeowMix]

Hello! I'm a bit new to the VX world, and in fact to the world of 4WD in general (I've always been a sports car girl) and I was hoping you folks could give me a little advice on a VX I've found that I would like nothing more than to take home and love to death. I have been looking for a VX for quite some time now, and finally found one in my own city for sale by a private party. I'm pretty weary of this car though...here's the breakdown:

This VX is a 2001, proton (my favorite), with only 70K miles on it...though the car has NOT been well cared for. Little things here and there tell the tale that the owner could care less about her vehicle. It's non-smoking, but still it's so filthy inside I was almost afraid to sit in it...the cladding is very sunfaded (what product would you use to restore this, or can you?), the VX badges are peeling, there are various broken nickel and dime parts on the interior (such as the dome light cover and a small part on the door panel), there are multiple paint chips along the border of the drivers' door, where it has been opened onto something, The engine and bay are filthy, etc...it's just a bit rough cosmetically (nothing a couple cheap replacement parts, a little love and my little green machine can't fix there). It has also been in a front end collision. I noticed this as soon as I saw it, due to the difference in sunfading between the front cladding and the rest of it, which I said nothing about initially but then she brought it up herself, which I suppose is a good thing...at least she's not trying to hide anything. Apparently the radiator was replaced in the accident, and she does have the paperwork for the repairs.

The engine runs smoothly, the car starts and drives fine, transmission feels smooth when shifting, no odd noises that I could hear, etc. Now for what really worries me: Both the Brake and ABS lights are on. The woman selling it insists these are both on due to a need for replacement brake pads. I would believe this would cause "brake" to illuminate, though is this true that both of these lights would illuminate for this reason? I have only ever owned GM vehicles, and I know this claim does not hold true for them. The TOD system seems to work as it should, or at least how I read about how it works, lol. Is there anyone who can explain to me how to operate the 4x4 system? I saw the controls, yet had no idea how to use them...this is the first 4WD vehicle I've ever looked at, so I'm not so familiar with these systems in the least.

And of course the kicker: the woman wants $10,000 for it. I would definitely not pay this for it, though I'm trying to figure out what would be a feasible offer, assuming the ABS light doesn't scare me off. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thanks!

-Kat

[Ebenezr]

Buy it. A lot of forumers are running with no ABS. I bought mine 4 plus months ago, 120K miles. It too had a minor front end collision in its history. My ABS do not work as a not so good mechanic destroyed a front speed sensor but I'm fine with that. I was looking for an old jeep to buy outright and begin sinking money into to make it what I want but I stumbled on the VX. I have sunk at least 1700.00 into it so far just in renewing the front end and other maintainence. Everybodys cladding is faded and there are renewal products. If it is what you've always wanted and can stomach spending a little to keep it up and make it you- then I say get it. I paid 9,000 for mine and yours is 50,000 miles younger!

[VXjunky]

buy it if she'll take 5500-6000, less if possible....i paid 6400 for mine with that mileage, (70,000) and its cherry, 2001 proton

[Mile High VX]

If ABS is important to you, it could be expensive to fix...like $2,400 expensive if you have to buy new parts. Lots of salvage VXs and maybe you can find the part used. In fact, there is a salavage VX in Spokane, but not sure if the ABS part would still be there or if it would be good. Might be a good source for those odds and ends that you may need. It's at Whitey's Wrecking on Francis and you could call them at 509-489-3850.

VX badge fading is a common issue. They are still available new for about $55 each and I had to replace mine when I bought it just because it bothered me. Some members just take off all of the badging and call it a day. Most of the members order new parts from St. Charles Isuzu in MO from a guy named Merlin. He gives us a discount and free shipping. You can reach him at 800-727-8066. You can also use isuzuparts.com to look up the parts that you may need.

Price is high for that condition. I paid much less, but more that VXjunky, for my 2001 Dragon with 69K miles and some great mods/upgrades.

Not sure you can "treat" the existing cladding to ever match the new piece. Someone else may have had this experience and can chime in here.

Good luck.

[VX KAT]

Hey SunfireKat- Boy is this going to get confusing!
I'm VX KAT...and go by Kat also! UH-OH!

Have you checked out "Osteomata"s...he's selling his '01 Proton, in great shape. He's in Miami.
http://vehicross.info/forums/showthr...threadid=19502

Have you seen the detailed questionnaire we put together?
It has some really key questions you need to ask on this one you've seen. Sometimes IMO, the VX is not a car that does well when "neglected"...which sounds like this one may be.....I think a very thorough examination by a good mechanic would be super important. You've got to find out about the condition of the engine and the oil status. And yes, the $10k is way too high...sounds more like $6,500 -$7,500 BUT it will absolutely depend on it's true condition and how much is or isn't wrong with it. Use the ABS light/issue as a HUGE bargaining chip since it's so expensive to replace. ...and remember, as others have said, they run OK w/o the ABS function...so it's not something you absolutely must replace...but use it as a bargaining chip!

I've put the questionnaire at the bottom of this post.

Have you read up on the important issues with the VX? There's a ton of great info on this site.

Here's some of the important threads on engine failure, polls, experience, etc....(if these links don't work, let me know...sometimes they don't work for some reason).


http://vehicross.info/forums/showthr...E+FAILURE+POLL

http://vehicross.info/forums/showthr...E+FAILURE+POLL

http://vehicross.info/forums/showthr...ngine+oil+poll

http://vehicross.info/forums/showthr...184#post166184

http://www.vehicross.info/forums/sho...light=axiom+DI

http://www.vehicross.info/forums/sho...light=axiom+DI

http://vehicross.info/forums/showthr...ght=iamironman

Here's the thread from Iamironman...
http://www.vehicross.info/forums/sho...ght=built+2000

http://www.vehicross.info/forums/sho...ine+swap+axiom

Several theories on Isuzu design defect in rings that causes oil consumption:
http://www.vehicross.info/forums/sho...rand+pcv+valve
*****************


COMPREHENSIVE VX QUESTIONNAIRE /CHECKLIST FOR BUYERS OR SELLERS
Here's the expanded "New Buyer" or "Seller" checklist:

~Any service history records?

~How long have you owned it?

~Electric windows work properly or bind?

~Condition of window rubber track/gaskets...(many have ripped or been cut)

~Look behind door panels to see if vapor barrier is present - (may indicate previous work on windows)

~Window regulator /motor been replaced?

~SBC brackets ever installed on windows?

~Any oil consumption noted, under ANY conditions? (some seem to consume a little when on prolonged highway driving)

~Chrome wheels peeling? (many peeled on the inner side)

~ABS - Any ABS light problems? Make sure ABS light comes on when key is first turned to ON position. If not, could a problem and / or bulb has been removed. Note, many have disconnected ABS system, or never repaired it when it went out, and truck seems to function fine (just no ABS).

~OEM CD player still work correctly or ERR3 code? Any jammed CDs?

~Any problems with TOD?

~Any clunking when decelerating or accelerating?

~Brand & model of tires & approx tread remaining-

~Do all 4 tires match in brand, size, model, AIR PRESSURE & wear? (TOD system will often make severe clunking noises if all 4 aren't pretty "equal" in all these terms)

~How long have these current 4 tires been on?

~Timing belt changed?

~Original OEM brake pads or replacements?

~Any fluids dripping, ever?

~Last time & what fluids have been changed?

~What type of fluids (synthetic oil or regular, motor oil, diff, tranny, transf case)?

~Evaluate/describe condition of all cladding - scrapes, holes, deformation, dryness, chalky appearance, any evidence of being "painted" in any way?

~Are all cladding screws present? Any striped?

~Condition of 4 screw knobs on inside rear door panel (often break off)

~Condition of inside door opening handle/levers & mechanism (sometimes broken)

~Any unusual /excessive vibrations - very subjective of course

~Any problems with motor mounts?

~Determine the history of the car's physical location, if possible (i.e. East Coast, potential rust, desert sun (UV), etc)

~Inspect thoroughly for rust!!
Any evidence of rusted bolts anywhere?
Is rear gas tank skid plate or tail pipe showing rust?

~Status of front bumper reinforcement bar? (Often rusts off completely)

~Status of rear license plate light/socket/bracket -(often severely rusts) -will give indication if it was in a rust belt area

~Condition of paint - Describe. (fading, chipping, scratches, repainted areas)

~Condition of hood insert - Describe. (very often cracked)

~Condition of plastic headlight housings - any crazing, fogged, cracked, etc...or been restored/polished, etc....(very often cloudy/fogged)

~Rubber headlight gaskets- present at all?, ripped, condition

~Evaluate engine bay- clean? dirty? Any evidence of leaking fluids (old or new) of any type?? Evaluate fluid levels.

~Evaluate air filter- excessively dirty? OEM or after-market?

~Has muffler ever been replaced? What's the status of the current muffler? Rusted, surface rust, etc? OEM, after-market? (Since, as I understand it, these mufflers are no longer available, so an aftermarket one with some modification to the pipes may be required.)

~Has it had to go through emissions testing recently? (Some states require for registration, some don't)

~Ever been lifted or torsion bars cranked?

~Condition of CV joints? (Can be damaged after being lifted)

~Battery- status, condition and age

~Any unusual flashing of any lights on dash or shifter? (Mode selection switch may be bad)

~Any odors inside, such as smoke?

~Condition of leather seats...scrapes, rips, tears, wear, abrasion, driver's side seat bolster

~Condition of center console padded armrest -(very often cracked and split where driver's elbow has rested on it)

~Condition of leather steering wheel - (often heavily scraped up)

~Condition of levers that bring seat back forward to allow access to rear seats (often broken)

~Does it have an OEM roof rack?

~Are OEM rail caps in place and/or available?

~Ever taken off road?

~OEM or after-market tail pipe?

~Status of tail pipe - any deformation may indicate off road use

~Status of rear lower cladding & rear gas tank skid plate- scrapes may indicate off road use

~Status of undercarriage overall - scrapes, damage, etc... may indicate off road use

~Any known repairs?

~Any extra parts on hand?

~Any modifications done previously that have now been removed? Describe.


list last modified: 6/8/10 11:09 am

[VXjunky]

looking thru the gallery yestrday...saw a member who'd painted the cladding proton yellow to match the BOD...not my cup of tea but a solution

[PK]

Be careful of the brake issues.
The ABS light has pretty well been covered, and yes you can do without it if you are inclined to drive like that.
But the brake light on is a different problem.
Cheap fix would be new pads, if that is the reason for the light to be on.
But it could easily be a stuffed master cylinder, or caliper causing the light.
That should be investigated prior to you making a decision.

And yes - the price is too high, but that will depend on how keen she is to sell, and how keen you are to buy.

Good luck - if it is a good one, you will fall in love forever.

PK

[rowhard]

welcome to the addiction. What you describe is as you say, nickel dime stuff. You came to the right place to get the info you need for most of these items/problems. IF your really taken with this VX and don't want to wait for another, I would spend the 100 bucks or less and have a mechanic you trust check it out, and the high cost items he might find can be bargaining points to bring the asking price down. AT 70k, your coming up (5k) on the cam timing belt change and most do the water pump at the same time. Unless your mechanically inclined, you will have to pay that and it ain't cheap.

Things to think about

[MeowMix]

Wow...I'm almost overwhelmed by all the info everyone has given me, lol. I appreciate all the feedback and advice! There's a very good chance that despite it's obvious flaws, I may continue to pursue this VX rather than waiting even longer than I already have for another to come along...to find one in the middle of the inland northwest with this low of mileage and in the color that I want and everything is a sheer stroke of luck. I just need to find a mechanic to check it out for me now, then the price bargaining can begin. Both of the Pontiacs I've had have never broken down, so I've never gotten a chance to know any mechanics in town...only tire shop people and of course, 12 volt people (my specialty)

Mile High - yes, ABS is important to me; braking and traction systems are the main reason I'm selling my Pontiac for an SUV. If the winters in Spokane keep up the way they have this year, and especially in 2008-09, I need something I can get through the thick snow and compact ice in...my car simply isn't cutting it. Thanks for the numbers and all, I have been to Whitey's before, though was there looking for Civic parts with a friend...never saw the VX.

VXJunky - I've seen the cladding painted before, not my thing either, though at least the one I saw was ebony, so it almost kinda looked "right", lol. I'm sure I can scour various product lines and find something to help with sunfading...I don't expect perfection though.

Kat - thank you for providing all those links, as well as that list; I didn't know it was here on the forums...though I haven't had the time to sit down and really check things out here yet. Perhaps the time I have off between the end of Jan term and the beginning of spring semester classes would be a good time to really check things out...and perhaps by then I'll have a VX in my garage, lol. I know I can run fine without ABS; my current car has no ABS system at all, and in going from one that had it to one that doesn't...I despise not having it, so I'd definitely like to fix it. Of course my El Camino didn't have it either, but she would only come out of the garage when the sun was shining and roads were dry Also, thanks for the thought, but Miami is a bit for for me to go for a vehicle...FL is probably the farthest from WA I can possibly get.

PK - thanks for the advice, the brake light being on is something I'll indeed have assessed when I take it to a mechanic, and hopefully it will be determined to only be the brake pads afterall. And I have no doubts that I will fall deeply in love if I'm able to obtain a VX; I fell in love with my first Sunfire as well as my El Camino...my girls meant everything to me. Though my current Sunfire was a compromise. I could take him or leave him, lol.

Rowhard - so nice to see another Washingtonian! Thanks for reminding me about 75K mi maintenance...yet another bargaining chip I can potentially use to drive price down! So long as I can get the woman selling it down to $6000, I'm golden...because I'm sure I can sell my current toy for 5 or 6 grand...

Nice meeting everyone, and y'all can call me MeowMix! I don't want to show up out of the blue and steal VX Kat's name. That would be awfully rude, lol.

[mdwyer]

Mile High - yes, ABS is important to me; braking and traction systems are the main reason I'm selling my Pontiac for an SUV. If the winters in Spokane keep up the way they have this year, and especially in 2008-09, I need something I can get through the thick snow and compact ice in...my car simply isn't cutting it.

Just my $.02, here. I can't actually recommend an SUV -- any SUV -- as being safer than your Pontiac in snow and ice. My VX will go through some seriously big snow, true. The problem is getting it to stop and keeping the rubber side down.

For what it is worth, I do my blizzards in my AWD Subaru (or before that, a FWD sedan), which I feel much more confident in. It is nimble enough and has a low enough center of gravity to keep me out of accidents. Once the snow gets so deep that I'm plowing with the bumper, well, that's another story. But until then, I'd rather be high-centered in the Subaru than upside-down in the VX.

Anyway, welcome to the group. I hope you do get a Proton

PS: I loved Spokane when I visited there in the 80s! Stayed at the Davenport... creepy old hotel!

[Osteomata]

SunfireKat,
I'm the guy in Miami selling the proton that VXKat linked to. If you change you mind about the distance and want to check an even lower mmileage, much better condition, no break or ABS problem VX for a lower price than the one you are looking at, feel free to give me a shout.

Having said that, the product you should look at for cladding restoration is Refinish Restorer. I treated my cladding twice and haven't touched it since. Fantastic, long lasting product. Expensive, but one can will last you a lifetime. Buy my VX and you can have the nearly full can I have left, hehe.

Best of luck to you regardless.

[MeowMix]

SunfireKat,
I'm the guy in Miami selling the proton that VXKat linked to. If you change you mind about the distance and want to check an even lower mmileage, much better condition, no break or ABS problem VX for a lower price than the one you are looking at, feel free to give me a shout.

Having said that, the product you should look at for cladding restoration is Refinish Restorer. I treated my cladding twice and haven't touched it since. Fantastic, long lasting product. Expensive, but one can will last you a lifetime. Buy my VX and you can have the nearly full can I have left, hehe.

Best of luck to you regardless.

If you lived on the west side and there was no rust at all on the car, I'd definitely want it...though I don't buy east coast vehicles, sorry Osteomata. The chemicals they use on the roads back home (I'm originally from the east) are harsh...not like up here in hicksville where they just throw dirt down and call it good, lol. Thank you for the offer though, and it really is a beautiful proton.

So I've managed to find a friend of a friend who is a mechanic and who is very familiar with at least Troopers, so perhaps he'll be willing to check out the VX I'm looking at...I'll find out tomorrow, when I can contact him. The only other hurdle in my path is the money. I only have $4k in the bank, and I moved back home and quit my job a couple months ago to go back to college full time...this no income thing is kind of a drag. I need to convince the bank of dad that I need a 0% interest loan until I can sell that silly Sunfire of mine. Not a big deal, except he doesn't condone of my choice in vehicles and would rather see me in a Trailblazer or an Envoy than a VX. Though I'm absolutely tenacious when I find something I really want...I'll get my VX even if it takes me many more months to do so. Hopefully all works out well this time, though if not I suppose the search continues. At this point I'm armed with a whole lot more info than I was before...thanks to all of you folks! Y'all are awesome!

-MeowMix

[vt_maverick]

The only other hurdle in my path is the money. I only have $4k in the bank, and I moved back home and quit my job a couple months ago to go back to college full time...this no income thing is kind of a drag. I need to convince the bank of dad that I need a 0% interest loan until I can sell that silly Sunfire of mine. Not a big deal, except he doesn't condone of my choice in vehicles and would rather see me in a Trailblazer or an Envoy than a VX. Though I'm absolutely tenacious when I find something I really want...I'll get my VX even if it takes me many more months to do so.

Well I hate to be a buzz kill, but based on this new info I think you really need to consider not buying a VX at all. I wouldn't go so far as to say that these trucks are money pits, but they are certainly not cheap to own, both from a maintenance and gas mileage perspective. If you already need to get dad's help because you have 0 income, I can only see you going back to him several more times over the course of ownership just to keep it running. Seems like (and I hate typing this) you'd be better served by a Civic or Corrolla until you get back into the work force.

[MeowMix]

Well I hate to be a buzz kill, but based on this new info I think you really need to consider not buying a VX at all. I wouldn't go so far as to say that these trucks are money pits, but they are certainly not cheap to own, both from a maintenance and gas mileage perspective. If you already need to get dad's help because you have 0 income, I can only see you going back to him several more times over the course of ownership just to keep it running. Seems like (and I hate typing this) you'd be better served by a Civic or Corrolla until you get back into the work force.

I don't mean to sound prude or anything, but I come from a relatively wealthy family, and money isn't really a huge issue. My parents insisted I quit my job and let them pay for anything I need/want throughout the duration of my education, and the only reason my father doesn't want to buy me a VX is because he'd rather buy me a newer, lower mileage FJ Cruizer (which is another SUV I'm rather fond of). I figure FJ's are considerably more expensive, and I'd rather cost him less. Either way, they insist I need 4WD because I ended up high centered in the deep snow in the middle of the street in my Sunfire and missed an important exam last semester...and I've wanted a VX for years, always watching as they would come and go on the dealership auctions that I have access to and frequently scour just for fun. Now I've somehow managed to find a proton in town, which is amazing odds. So...perfect timing?

I know I made it sound like money is an issue in my previous post (because to me it is), but it really isn't. Essentially, I'm a completely spoiled daddy's girl who will have zero problems initially buying or getting the VX fixed if it needs repairs...a car repair bill would pale in comparison to my University's tuition bills that my parents have paid for thus far. So there it is, the ugly truth. People generally don't like my "type"...now y'all probably look at me in a different light

...though had I not graciously accepted the amazing opportunity presented to me, and not gone back to college to pursue a real career, I still would be struggling out on my own. I went through some hard times, and was very much humbled by them.

Oh and VXJunky...good point. It doesn't snow in FL. I may be book smart, though I can be kind of a flake sometimes, and common sense doesn't always strike me, lol. However...the salty, humid ocean air in FL can cause significant rust problems. This is also why I didn't pursue a VX I found in the Seattle area last month (so close too!) Spokane is a very dry city, so no humidity to cause rusting, and we have little to no salt issues. The only thing is that it does snow, so for about 4 months out of the year, there is wetness on the roads. I could get into talking about the chemical reaction that causes rust...H2O and NaCl molecules, their polarity, etc and why salt is much more of a concern than water, though I won't bore you with chemistry that I myself find to be profoundly interesting, lol. I'll just point out that Miami is worse on a car than Spokane is in terms of rust...though we DO have FL beat when it comes to potholes and rock chips! Furthermore, whatever VX I end up with isn't doomed. I love and pamper and take exceptional care of my vehicles...I detail them obsessively using only mothers and meguiars products, even using Q-tips to get to the dirt in the nooks and crannies of my exterior from spring to fall, and interior year round. I'm also obsessive about mechanical soundness; using higher octane gasoline and always checking my fluids, tire pressure, etc. A little OCD never hurt anyone, right?

[vt_maverick]

I don't mean to sound prude or anything, but I come from a relatively wealthy family, and money isn't really a huge issue. My parents insisted I quit my job and let them pay for anything I need/want throughout the duration of my education...

Now I've somehow managed to find a proton in town, which is amazing odds. So...perfect timing?

I know I made it sound like money is an issue in my previous post (because to me it is), but it really isn't. Essentially, I'm a completely spoiled daddy's girl who will have zero problems initially buying or getting the VX fixed if it needs repairs...a car repair bill would pale in comparison to my University's tuition bills that my parents have paid for thus far. So there it is, the ugly truth. People generally don't like my "type"...now y'all probably look at me in a different light

Well we all come from different backgrounds, and if your family is blessed to have the resources to fund this venture, I won't hate on you for that. I have a two year old daughter, and although I don't intend to spoil her, I can see how that happens. But I will say this: if you really do have the wealth at your disposal that you indicate, I think there's even less reason to settle for something just because it's in your local area. If you can find an even better Proton (Osteomata's or not) somewhere else, why not? If you're already ready to commit $1000 or more of your Dad's funds to up-front repair bills, why not use the same amount of money to pay the airfare or shipping costs required to get a better, lower cost VX? Are you concerned that if you don't buy the local VX now, your Dad will force you into an FJ?

Oh and VXJunky...good point. It doesn't snow in FL. I may be book smart, though I can be kind of a flake sometimes, and common sense doesn't always strike me, lol. However...the salty, humid ocean air in FL can cause significant rust problems.

Actually you may not be as much of a flake as you thought. After suggesting that Florida might be a better climate, I did some digging through Osteomata's post history on this site and discovered (and I think he also disclosed this in his ad) that he originally bought it from someone in New York. To what degree that may or may not have added rust is up for debate, but I thought I would post that data point to validate some of your concerns.