Electric cars a bad idea?

[Stephen Biko]

I digress, electric cars are silly, just like smart cars and mini coopers. There are old hondas and Riff's super rare fiesta that get far better mileage, at a teeny tiny fraction of the cost. Those cars are 15-20 years old, we had the technology with conventional engines 2 decades ago!!!

No we did not. You are comparing apples to oranges. 15-20 years ago cars were 500lbs+ lighter because they didn't have all of the safety engineering that is part of modern vehicles. For example:

Curb Weights
1990 Nissan Sentra Base Model: 2156 lbs 29/36MPG
2010 Nissan Sentra Base Model w/ CVT: 2972 lbs 26/34MPG

You put one of those 1990 engines in a modern car and you won't see anything like the MPG that it got in one of those light-weight chassis of 1990.

[Marlin]

No we did not. You are comparing apples to oranges. 15-20 years ago cars were 500lbs+ lighter because they didn't have all of the safety engineering that is part of modern vehicles. For example:

Curb Weights
1990 Nissan Sentra Base Model: 2156 lbs 29/36MPG
2010 Nissan Sentra Base Model w/ CVT: 2972 lbs 26/34MPG

You put one of those 1990 engines in a modern car and you won't see anything like the MPG that it got in one of those light-weight chassis of 1990.

I think you are also missing some data. Sentras only came in a manual tranny up until about 8 years ago, the base model had no AC, power windows power locks, power trunk release and so on, things that are all standard even in the base model now. You can't compare the weight of a base model from 19 years ago to now and say its only because of safety stuff. With today's modern materials, there is no reason we can't get it down to that weight if you strip all the amenities out of it actually compare model to model.

Strange, I looked at the traffic fatalities numbers, from 94 (thats as far back as it went) to 2006, traffic deaths went up almost 10%!!! Went from 36,200 to 39,200! I wonder if that is due to speed limits going to 70mph?
Just wondering, since our vehicles got safer, yet fatalities went up.

[circmand]

I think you are also missing some data. Sentras only came in a manual tranny up until about 8 years ago, the base model had no AC, power windows power locks, power trunk release and so on, .

Why do we need all these friggin extras. I prefer rolling down the window by hand to replacing a motor for $800. Anyone think our windows would have the issues they do if they were perfected manual roll downs? Power locks hell I never locked myself outr of a car til cars started locking the damn doors for me. power trunk release how lazy are some people. How about the 20 speaker stereo systems. Friggin 10 pounds of speaker wire plus the speaker and stereo. How about these 22 inch rims and tirems weighing 50 or more pounds a piece.

And they do all this crap and then the one good option that used to be standarded a full sized spare is dropped for weight.


ARRRGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!

[RickOKC]

Strange, I looked at the traffic fatalities numbers, from 94 (thats as far back as it went) to 2006, traffic deaths went up almost 10%!!! Went from 36,200 to 39,200!

I wonder how that compares to the population increase.

I wonder if that is due to speed limits going to 70mph?

BITE. YOUR. TONGUE. No really, right now. We'll wait.

[Marlin]

I wonder how that compares to the population increase.


BITE. YOUR. TONGUE. No really, right now. We'll wait.

LMFAO, my tongue hurts now, thanks. As for the population increase(9% from 2000 to 2010), all those kids haven't started driving yet, so unless you are referring to illegals without driver's licenses or insurance, I doubt it

I rarely drive the VX over 50 mph, even on the freeway I am in the right lane.

The F250 on the other hand....it just rides so nice at 80mph and it still gets better mpg than the VX does at 45 or 50!!! I love my big diesel truck, gets better mpg than a mini cooper and I can haul a house with it. Definitely could haul some gold bars in the bed
Oh, I am on this mini cooper kick cause one of the guys at work bought one for his wife. She is only getting around 24mpg around town. They are pissed.
She says she takes it easy, but for some reason, I doubt that

[newthings]

Root problem -- Like Scott said, ”Too many people”. To political to tackle that one. Mother nature will fix, in her own good time.

Current battery technology is not suitable for competing with oil based gas as a car fuel.
Trying to justify electric power in a subsidized environment is like trying to quantify farts.

(Year old data) Honda has a program in SoCal, offering natural gas powered conventional cars for sale at normal unsubsidized prices. A low pressure house gas line is used with a compressor to give a partial fill up overnight. The cost of the compressor unit is about $2000.00. No one mentioned -- How about buying two compressors?”

Natural gas is the only thing that makes sense right now and for the next 10 years. We have a lot of natural gas. If the cracking extraction process does not get greedy and pollute the water tables and ruin the reputation of the product, we can get and distribute natural gas now. The natural gas stock market is slow and boring. The politicians do not champion natural gas. Politicians do subsidies and pay offs. They are not working for us.

Methane hydrate lays thick on the bottom of vast deepwater sea beds. That is natural gas and water under pressure. Rejecting that the human race will continue to breed infinitely, there is a near infinite supply of methane hydrate there for the picking. Technology is needed, but it is conventional not magical, like an unobtainable ideal battery. Sorry, the chemistry and physics just are not there.

Look at all of the quickly improving technologies we are use to. Batteries have only improved in small increments. Even high temp batteries with lots of risky side effects, are not capable of the power densities and long life, need in cars. Pull the subsidies and you could not make enough 10 foot poles for the Volts and Leafs. Soon the Priususes will be needing to be re-batteried. Who will pay and how much? Top Gear drove a Prius hard and got about 6 mpg.

But don’t get me started.

Roy

[circmand]

Root problem -- Like Scott said, ”Too many people”. To political to tackle that one. Mother nature will fix, in her own good time.

Roy

Too many people driving but on the other hand not enough paying into social security.

Think about it. That is the main problem about solving problems. One only looks at one issue and how to solve it. That translates into causing other problems usually just as bad or worse than the initial problem. Frankly it isnt too many people it is too many stupid people. There should be a law that limits who can breed.

And for those who say that would be wrong or violate their rights I say who cares. What about my right not too be unduly burdened by morons.

[Stephen Biko]

And for those who say that would be wrong or violate their rights I say who cares. What about my right not too be unduly burdened by morons.

Nothing wrong with it all! I vote you and your gene pool to be the first.

[circmand]

Nothing wrong with it all! I vote you and your gene pool to be the first.

Fix me at let me at em I am more for the motions than the results anyhow. Just make sure my social security is covered.

[Stephen Biko]

You can't compare the weight of a base model from 19 years ago to now and say its only because of safety stuff.

It really doesn't matter where all the weight comes from - focusing on that is a red herring. The point is that cars weigh a helluva lot more and yet mpg is roughly the same because engine technology has come a long way. You put a modern engine in a 1990 chassis and you are looking at way better efficiency than we had before. What we had back then does not compare to what we have today.

Strange, I looked at the traffic fatalities numbers, from 94 (thats as far back as it went) to 2006, traffic deaths went up almost 10%!!! Went from 36,200 to 39,200! I wonder if that is due to speed limits going to 70mph?
Just wondering, since our vehicles got safer, yet fatalities went up.

US population in 1994: ~260M Fatalities: 40,716
US population in 2006: ~300M Fatalities: 42,642
US population in 2009: ~306M Fatalities: 33,808

That's a population increase of 15% but really only a %5 increase in fatalities by 2006 and a 17.5% decrease in fatalities by 2009. That drastic drop over the last ~5 years is due to increased safety requirements starting early in the decade.

[Marlin]

It really doesn't matter where all the weight comes from - focusing on that is a red herring. The point is that cars weigh a helluva lot more and yet mpg is roughly the same because engine technology has come a long way. You put a modern engine in a 1990 chassis and you are looking at way better efficiency than we had before. What we had back then does not compare to what we have today.

So we need to put new engines in old cars!!! I wonder if fuel prices affect accidents as well. When the prices go up, people drive a bit more conservatively, drive less and so on.
I couldn't find a fatalities per gallon of fuel sold or something like that. We couldn't really use miles, since we have no idea how many miles folks are driving. But gallons of gas, we could use an average mpg to get a ballpark, and then using the fatalities from each year come up with some accidents/mile figure. Say 2% of gas is not used in vehicles (lawn mowers, generators and so on, I have no real idea, just guessing. Its probably much lower than 2%)

[Stephen Biko]

I couldn't find a fatalities per gallon of fuel sold or something like that. We couldn't really use miles, since we have no idea how many miles folks are driving.

Try clicking on the links I include. You might learn something.

[circmand]

Try clicking on the links I include. You might learn something.

and you might spend the rest of your life reading a ton of links too. Lets remember some people here have more to do than reading a llong winded post with 3-4 attachments to them that are just as long.

[Stephen Biko]

and you might spend the rest of your life reading a ton of links too. Lets remember some people here have more to do than reading a llong winded post with 3-4 attachments to them that are just as long.

Instead they have time to tell us all what they don't know!
Ignorance is wisdom.