WikiLeaks

[Stephen Biko]

I am kind of curious how you know its the raw data? We have already established that they(wikileaks) filter it.

So, with zero evidence to support it, you believe that they are lying about their entire reason for existence? You can't name even one document that wikileaks has published and has later been shown to be fraudulently edited. I think that's practically the definition of prejudgment.

Also, why hasn't all the info been released? Is he now hoarding data? Shouldn't he just release it as soon as he gets it for the sake of transparency?

They used to do it that way. In fact, they released over 1.2 million documents that way - just make a press release and put out a zip file containing all of the documents from each source. But the information overload meant very few people bothered to even dig through it. So this year they've taken a different tack.

Nothing is going to change short of an armed revolution. And that, folks, is just not gonna happen in America.

So nobody should try to make things better because its really hard to make things better? Now that's a self-defeating prophecy. The enemy of good is perfect.

Plus, you've also got this US-centric view that completely misses the point. Information released via wikileaks changed an election in Kenya such that none of the officials in the named report were re-elected. Their Kaupthing publication prevented the Icelandic government from sweeping banking reform under the carpet - maybe the rumored BoA documents will do the same here.

[Marlin]

So nobody should try to make things better because its really hard to make things better? Now that's a self-defeating prophecy. The enemy of good is perfect.

government from sweeping banking reform under the carpet - maybe the rumored BoA documents will do the same here.

It is not even in the really hard range, it is in the impossible range. The people involved have more money than we can even comprehend. Once again, it would take armed revolution or the collapse of the infrastructure they currently rely on for their power base.

He is not doing anything to make anything better. He is just posting stuff on the internet. As for Kenya, who gives a **** about Kenya? Obama probably does, but they are not a key world player by any means. All 16 people in Kenya that have internet read his post and it changed an election, now they have a whole new band of brothers to lead the way in corruption. Once again, if it came out tomorrow via Wikileaks that Hillary had a whole town in Idaho burned to the ground, the CEO of BoA stole the Crown Jewels and that the Rothchilds only ate the flesh of new born babies, what would you do? Probably the same thing I would do, not a damned thing. You are forgetting the amounts of money involved in their world. THEY DON"T CARE WHAT YOU OR I THINK! THEY ARE NOT ELECTED OFFICIALS, AND YES, THEY ARE ABOVE THE LAW. Hell, the only reason that Madoff was busted is because he stole from other wealthy people that had the money and influence to do something about it. If he stole all that money 10K at a time from people like you and me, he would still be sailing the seven seas in his sweet *** yacht.
Most of Obama's compadres are appointed, not elected. You have no say in what goes on, nor does anyone else.

I don't care what BoA documents come out, it will do nothing. We are not even concerned about 9 trillion dollars in loans that were given to them under the rug! Once again, if it came out that they were stealing homes from so-called innocent people, or taking the government loans and putting them right into their pockets, lying on forms, purposely bribing city officials to lower the values of homes to cause the housing bubble collapse, it still would not matter. Not until every member of BoA withdrew all their cash, people with BoA mortgages, credit cards and so on just stopped paying would it make a difference.

What do you think is going to happen? Or better yet, what do you want to happen? I am just curious.

As for the TJ quote, you are partially correct. I was interpreting his words in today's state of affairs. I believe it still applies, but he was not referring to the printed press or the corruption of newspapers, he was indeed talking about government control and the creation of programs to "protect and care for the common citizen". Just not social welfare programs as we know them. I am updating my signature now

[Y33TREKker]

It is not even in the really hard range, it is in the impossible range. The people involved have more money than we can even comprehend....

Another example of placing too much esteem on those in positions of power and affluence?

Let's keep it simple, just because some have apparently decided to give up because they believe nothing can be done doesn't mean everyone has.

A quote from another President.

"It is not the critic who counts, nor the man who points how the strong man stumbled or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena; whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly...who knows the great enthusiasms, the great devotions, and spends himself in a worthy cause; who, at best, knows the triumph of high achievement; and who, at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who know neither victory nor defeat." - Theodore Roosevelt

[Marlin]

Another example of placing too much esteem on those in positions of power and affluence?

Let's keep it simple, just because some have apparently decided to give up because they believe nothing can be done doesn't mean everyone has.

A quote from another President.

'Some' infers that it is the minority. I would say almost all would be a better quantifier. Haven't seen anyone do anything of importance lately.

I am not putting too much esteem on the wealthy, but if it comes down to it, there is not a whole lot you can't do with a few million bucks. Make people disappear, car accident, fired from your job, slander of character and so on.
Money talks. Until the day that money no longer talks, it will continue to be this way. Meanwhile, I will continue to prepare for that day, and it will come, wait until the USD is no longer the world reserver currency, 10 dollar loaf of bread, 25 dollars for a gallon of gas...we have gone so long without doing things for ourselves, it will be a difficult transition to say the least. A majority of our country would have no idea what to do if Starbucks closed tomorrow, and walmart closed up shop. Just look at the last presidential election, then you will know what 'majority' I am talking about.

Ask yourself, would you know how to survive if there were no stores to get all your necessities from? Do you have the means to make your own safe water, do you have a plan on where to go when cities become death traps? Could you defend your family and your belongings? Could you make your own vehicle repairs, are in you in good enough shape to hike miles if need be? Can you start a fire or make a shelter? (this is not directed at any specific person, but more of a reality check for those that are reading)

When I was in Guam, a large typhoon decimated the island. We went almost a month with no gasoline, the island's fuel farm burned to the ground. No gas=no electricity=no stores=money was worthless. If it wasn't for the Navy and Airforce having their own fuel/water/power plants, that island would have been a warzone. That was a wake-up call for me.

So until money is worthless, those that have the gold will continue to rule. You can get mad at them, you can call them names, but it makes absolutely no difference since the individuals are not elected officials, they are appointed or just simply employees. Until someone starts firing shots at em, there isn't a whole lot you can do. Look at the OJ trial, proof that if you have enough money, you are above the law (unless you Eff with another extremely wealthy individual)

I do wonder why no one has responded to the fact that we gave the major banks 9 trillion dollars at less than 1% interest with no public disclosure until a few years later. Where did we even get 9 trillion dollars? Oh wait, we didn't, the Fed just printed more money. You could invest that kind of money and earn ridiculous interest beyond 1%, oh wait, thats what they did, all at our expense and devaluation of the dollar. We could have divided that 9 trillion between every tax paying citizen and solved every financial crisis in the world. Houses paid off, new cars purchased, all kinds of things purchased, health care no longer an issue...

[Y33TREKker]

'Some' infers that it is the minority. I would say almost all would be a better quantifier.

Actually, I used the word "some" out of respect because I didn't just want to come out and say "you", but since you've also seen fit to now try to spin my comments to mean something they don't, I suppose all bets are off.

Given the rest of your post, it's obvious you've decided to go "glass is half-full" and give up. That's your prerogative of course, but just because it's what you've decided, it doesn't mean it's the best alternative to choose.

I'm no genius, and admit I can sometimes be wrong, so I sometimes also keep quotes in mind from those more intelligent than myself.

"You cannot simultaneously prevent and prepare for war." -- Albert Einstein

[Marlin]

What are you going to do? Talking about not giving up means nothing. What are you going to do if something serious comes out of wikileaks?

I never said I gave up, I am just doing the only thing I can, preparing for the worst.

I think we are in a rut here, arguing the same thing with same point of view. Do I think the system is screwed up, yes. Do I think our elected officials are cheats, yes. When given the resources that they have available to them, the incredible amounts of money, corruption is inevitable.

Is there anything we, the common citizen, can do about it, I don't think so. Not without violence. Formal law enforcement doesn't mean a whole lot when you are the one that directs them what to do.

So once again, what do you propose the common person do about the problems?

[Y33TREKker]

...So once again, what do you propose the common person do about the problems?

You must be a barrel of laughs during the family games of Monopoly.

I guess further clarification is needed. Your comments seem to be alternating between assuming that wikileaks is accomplishing nothing and that all they will accomplish by persisting is a collapse of civilization as we know it.

What can the common person do? Support entities who at least attempt to change things rather than only trying to discredit them when they try. Don't you think that doing nothing or helping to discredit the whistle-blowers of the world is exactly what the people you perceive as none being able to touch would hope you would do?

It's good to hear that you haven't given up, but your efforts are admittedly one-sided if all you are doing is preparing for the worst. So let's say that in the end you are right about the way the world is going to end up. And let's also say that Einstein was wrong.

I can't help but wonder what consolation it would be to you and your family at that point to know that you were right, as you also no doubt occasionally wondered what more you could have possibly been doing along with your current apocalyptic preparations to prevent the world from becoming what it did.

As bad as it may be, I personally believe that there is still more "civil" in current civilization than there would be in the one you are preparing for. And besides, that is still then, and since all we really have is now, the future remains unwritten.