Quote Originally Posted by circmand View Post
Give me a big old steak, baked potato with butter, corn on the cob and a big old slice of Turtle pie for desert. I may not be purty but no carnivore every got brought down by beef broth in their vegetable stew. Really look at the so called healthy lifstyle folks. Pale, nomuscle tone they look like mashed potatos
My job is to workout on average 4 hours a day so I can and do eat A LOT of food daily. I actually have problems eating enough. I am 6'4" 215-220lbs with about 6% body fat and can power clean well over 300lbs for multiple reps..... I say none of this to boast please don't hear me say that, I simply say this to remind you that taking care of my body and keeping it running and jumping and throwing and competing at the highest level is my job and honestly there is no short cut around eating better (smarter) and working out (smarter not harder this involves correct rest). Nothing else works long term with good results. Just because something is labeled "organic" or "natural" means NOTHING! This is just another marketing campaign to make money and charge more to the consumer, whatever sells. I promise you there are A LOT of "organic" and "all natural" plants/herbs/foods that are posionus or harmful. Especially when people think "the more the better", your body can become overloaded on almost any substance if you are consuming more than you can absorb or urinate out. You can even die from drinking too much water.

Quote Originally Posted by Y33TREKker View Post
I don't see how anyone can make a definitive statement on the subject when it seems like every other week even "science" is announcing that one of their own earlier findings is now incorrect.
Haha this is so true.....
Quote Originally Posted by circmand View Post
You want a real miracle cure? Diet and exercise.
Exactly. But not diet, that sounds like a plan that can change, you have to totally change your lifestyle, where you eat, what you eat, how much you eat, how much you drink and if what, and it has to stay that way and not just be a "diet" that goes away.
Quote Originally Posted by VX KAT View Post
And let's not forget the many-times-over proven placebo effect.
exactly!!!!! Most if not ALL times when someone claims that some pill or any substance made them loss weight it is just a type of placebo effect. Even if the results are real, just the fact that you believe in something enough to spend money on it and invest in it, you will (consiously or sub-consiously) start to change other things in your life to support your desired outcome with this product or you will have been proven an idiot for believing a lie and investing in a scam. Basically faith does change things whether we believe it or not. Most if not all times in these cases it is not the product (pill, powder, etc.) that affects the positive change in the person's life. It is all the smaller more subtle changes that support this desired outcome. Pills, powders, etc ARE NOT substantially absorbed by the body! And when these things are injected the results are short term and the body starts to rely on the intake of these things and stops naturally producing and naturally aquatint these as well from other foods. The body is REALLY smart and adapts to what you are putting in it. Even something as simple as natural creatine when taken in higher doses than the body produces needs to be supported by a huge increase in water intake and stretching excersies to prevent massive cramping and WHEN you stop taking it or top working out the positive effects are gone VERY QUICKLY!!!!! there are no short cuts there is no magic poll/drink/injection they all have their positives/negatives/side effects and ARE not long lasting especially when not taken any more. I am drug tested all the time by the Olympic Committe and USA Track and Field, yes to keep things fair but also to keep me from ruining my body for the sake of short term gains that will tear my body apart and be gone as soon as I am off the stuff.
Quote Originally Posted by Osteomata View Post
MDs are human, and thus just as susceptible to corruption or self delusion or "harmless" little lies for the sake of profit as anyone else. What do the double blind tests show? What does the peer reviewed literature on the subject actually say?
Good questions but in this case I don't think they even need to be answered when this is obviously a pyramid scheme.