Nutrition and Health - Proven results w/Science

[Ascinder]

[Osteomata]

I'm impressed. By the critique, that is. I haven't been logged in to Vehicross Info in a while, but it is pretty gratifying to see that inside of four responses and someone points out the whole thing is an MLM product, and Biko takes the time to research and point out the psuedo pscientific nonsense surrounding this wonder cure. How many things has the OP claimed this miracle product can help wiht so far? I lost count.

Thanks, Stephen Biko, for taking the time. Especially loved the challenge of the OPs appeal to authority. Plus, anyone who signs off with Bertrand Russell is OK in my book

The most potent weapon of the oppressor is the mind of the oppressed.
- SB

[JHarris1385]

Knowledge is power - JRH 2010

Fact: He was not able to point out any nonsense within it. More so was only able to point out that the author of the John Hopkins review paper was also working for Trees for Life. That doesn't make it any less credible.

Fact: I figured there would be more here that were open minded.

Fact: Is a MLM/Direct Marketing, who cares, that does not make it and inferior product.

Fact: Too many people locally with great stories and results as well as nationwide and other countries.

Thanks for your understanding.

[Osteomata]

Knowledge is power - JRH 2010

Fact: He was not able to point out any nonsense within it. More so was only able to point out that the author of the John Hopkins review paper was also working for Trees for Life. That doesn't make it any less credible.

Fact: I figured there would be more here that were open minded.

Fact: Is a MLM/Direct Marketing, who cares, that does not make it and inferior product.

Fact: Too many people locally with great stories and results as well as nationwide and other countries.

Thanks for your understanding.

You seem confused as to the definition of a fact, as yours' are not, actually.

Opinion: I think he pretty skillfully pointed out the nonsense you are selling.
Opinion: Your second point is pretty much the definition of an opinion. You figured...
Opinion: MLM marketing is often scams, and what is not a scam is often useless, regardless of the True Believers selling it. Like your product, for instance.
Opinion: The plural of anecdote is not evidence, despite your just so stories and personal testimonies.

[JHarris1385]

Quite honestly do you think I thought it would not be brought up that this was set up the way it is? I insisted on anyone googling it if they wanted to. In addition, if it came down to it how else would I introduce the business side of it without informing of this?

It does not bother me of how it is set up. Many people around us work for or share products from companies. This one just happens to be one of the few that is more so medicinal.

[VX KAT]

Argh!!!! Make it stop, please!!!!!!




yes, I know I could just stop reading the thread...but IMO it'd be nicer if it just ceased......Just IMHO

[Ascinder]

Argh!!!! Make it stop, please!!!!!!




yes, I know I could just stop reading the thread...but IMO it'd be nicer if it just ceased......Just IMHO

X2 Seriously you guys need to just agree to disagree. Just let it go. No really, no response is needed. You don't even need to reply. Just let sleeping dogs lie. Just accept there are conflicting views and live with it. Why even try to support your point against someone who is absolutely opposed to your point of view? It's like trying to convince Nazis to support Judiasm or making communists see the virtues of capitalism. YOU ARE WASTING YOUR TIME!!!. You have already convinced anyone who is remotely aligned to your point of view already. Seriously arguing this thread is wasting time past this point. Figure it out. That is not meant as a challenge to post a rebuttal, but a call to stop posting so this thread doesn't keep finding it's way to the top. Myself, and a great many others are tired of having to sift through your tirades to see posts that actually have a legitimate meaning to something relating to the topic of a goddamn vehi-cross. Soapbox session: OVER!

[Stephen Biko]

YOU ARE WASTING YOUR TIME!!!.
...
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable man persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on me.

Sounds like it might be time for a new .sig there.

[Stephen Biko]

Sorry guys, but the irony is just too great for me not to make one truely self-indulgent post here. I apologize for the fit of incoherence that is sure to follow. Really, I do.

Turns out there really is something to JRH's theory about moringa being harmful. It is a good thing he brought it up.

You know that survey paper that Johns Hopkins "fully backs" just because a guy studying broccoli at JHU wrote it? That paper includes a study -- one that used real science to compare the effects of feeding ground-up moringa seeds to rats versus a standard laboratory baseline diet of egg-white protein.

Guess what? Eating moringa caused those rats to suffer "loss of appetite, impaired growth, lower NPU and enlargement of stomach, small intestine, caecum+colon, liver, pancreas, kidneys, heart and lungs and atrophy of thymus and spleen."

See for yourself it is reference #112 in the "Johns Hopkins Paper"

Here's the abstract of the study itself, just a paragraph long in reasonably plain english.

So there you have it, Johns Hopkins says moringa can cause impaired growth plus enlargement of many important organs in the body. Remember, "No doctor, no person with a higher degree, nor a School like JH will ever allow something to have their name on it if they did not fully back it. That is common sense." So it must be true.

If it weren't for JRH's meticulous understanding of academia and scientific research that brought the "JHU paper" to our attention we would never have learned how dangerous this plant is. If you don't want your organs to swell up, avoid it!

PS, moringa makes a good pesticide too. Lollers!

[JHarris1385]

In reference to your pesticide post - We should all be aware from basic science knowledge that plants have natural ways or warding off potential predators by things internal or as simple as sight or smell. What you have posted is a link from pubmed that states the lectin within does just this. We have lectin right now in our bodies. Some lectin is good some bad and some are bad or good to other forms of life and not us. Now considering we do not share the same circulatory or digestive tracks of a flying insect this does not harm us. I can easily go into more detail but maybe I need to keep this basic.

In reference to your rat post - This is not as easily explained in basic form. So follow me...your post stated that the seeds have a deficient levels of the amino acids lysine, threonine and valine. Well first, lysine in a rat is the first limiting amino acid. Which means if in low volumes of what is needed, alters the protein synthesis cycle within during translation/transcription/DNA/RNA process. So this means the rats were fed a diet that malnourished them. An effect of being malnourished is enlarged bloating gut and organs. As stated this alters the protein cycle of building your cells correctly. This would create a mutation in the line up of your amino acids, possibly leading to a missense mutation. Lysine comes from the leaves of the plant.


Are we done yet? I feel I did quite a good job.

I agree you don't like anything about this. We have gotten way off course. Could you find it possible to cease your posts of negativity? There has not been once I was not able to show you the other side of things. I would like to continue to post positive things about this as you have been more than able to make your point and steer anyone away from this at this point.


Like I said this is science.

[circmand]

[U]


I agree you don't like anything about this. We have gotten way off course. Could you find it possible to cease your posts of negativity? There has not been once I was not able to show you the other side of things. I would like to continue to post positive things about this as you have been more than able to make your point and steer anyone away from this at this point.


Like I said this is science.

And to question if someone else on here has a right to post?

I would have expected better from you. As many here know I fully support anyone posting anything on here that is not an attack on another poster. To suggest you should be allowed to post about a non VX product, something you have been against before, but another does not have the right to question what may be a legimate counter arguement is wrong. And then to try to embaress a long time visitor to this site by question whether he has made a voluntary donation just compounds the issue

[JHarris1385]

P.S. - Have you paid your dues for this site? Or are you using it for free?

[Stephen Biko]

Now considering we do not share the same circulatory or digestive tracks of a flying insect this does not harm us. I can easily go into more detail but maybe I need to keep this basic.

Awful lot of generalization there - you seem exceptionally confident that there is nothing more to the effect. That's an unsupported conclusion. Especially given that those same researchers followed up on mosquito testing and found an effect on the thymus just from subcutaneously injecting rats with moringa -- rather than making it their sole source of protein like the other researchers did.

Either way though, kudos for not going all rabid this time. What's kinda odd is how your writing style is so much more cogent, much better grammar, tighter sentence construction and reduced rambling. It's almost like someone else's writing.

Like I said this is science.

No, it is not. Science requires the use of the scientific method - not literature surveys and bad logic.

Could you find it possible to cease your posts of negativity? There has not been once I was not able to show you the other side of things

If you stop making outrageous and unsupported claims I will stop calling you out on them. And no, there really has been only once you've been able to show "the other side of things" - just because I haven't called you out on every fallacy doesn't mean they weren't fallacies. Most of them I figured were self-evident enough that they didn't even need to be disputed.

P.S. - Have you paid your dues for this site? Or are you using it for free?

Hey there it is! I've been expecting you try to chase me off by questioning my right to be here.

I've been around here since before you even knew what a VX was.
I was around to buy one of the first few superchargers from Tone and before that the interceptor as well as a bunch of his other accessories and I wouldn't be surprised if I've contributed 10x the dollars to funding this site that you have.

The thing is I would NEVER even imply that you didn't have the right to post here, but it looks like that's your goto tactic. First you complained about my non-VX posts in a non-VX thread that you started in the non-VX forum. Then you hypocritically accused me of have something to gain by debunking some of your outrageous claims. And then, in the most transparent display of frustration yet, you try to get all holier-than-thou but totally misfire. Seems like a major self-esteem issue to me - so much hyperbole and bluster when you don't get your way.

[BigSwede]

I just wanna hear more about enlargement of organs...if this effect could be targeted to certain organs you could make some serious money!

[Ascinder]

I just wanna hear more about enlargement of organs...if this effect could be targeted to certain organs you could make some serious money!

Plus you could use the organ enlarging effect to help end the pissing contest this thread has turned into!