Engine question

[MSHardeman]

I have a feeling that whether everyone knows it, or not, most of us have rust under where the radiator sits. I don't really have any rust on my VX anywhere, but when I was doing my timing belt swap I noticed rust right where you're talking about. I also noticed that the back side of my front skid plate (right under the radiator mount) was also rusty. Must be something about how the water drains and pools right in that area.

[SlowPro48]

Dude you like to learn things the hard way don't you? We said in the other thread it's not the valves, check the timing belt tensioner but NO you hadda go and root around under the valve covers. Ha! Ya didn't crack that left side open though didya? Man that corner bolt above #6 looks like a PITA.

OK since you're now EXPERIENCED in the valve actuating area, I've got a couple questions for you - were any of your clearances out of spec? Also is the valve cover gasket the re-usable type that fits in a groove in the cover or is it the fiber type that sticks to the head and you have to scrape it off? I'm trying to figure out if it's worth taking the time to check valve clearance now that I'm past 100K or just let it ride...

I believe I have my marks in place to start removing the timing belt. Would like to hear from someone before I take the next step.

Cams look good but your crankshaft is off by 180 degrees. The #2 TDC notch at the back of the pulley should be lined up with the mark on the oil pump. The timing mark on the front of the pulley (shown in your pic marked with green paint) is what you align the dotted line on the new belt with. It is 180 degrees from the notch. If you look carefully you will probably see a green dot behind the pulley, opposite the mark cast in the oil pump. When the crank is oriented properly for timing belt installation, the green dot on the pulley, the dotted line on the belt and the green dot on the pump all line up - so keep all your dots in a row! That green dot painted on the pump is pretty fat though - i.e., just for information not for lining things up - so for the sake of accuracy, position the crank according to the cast mark on the pump and the #2 TDC notch on the pulley. One thing to note - you don't need to have the marks on the belt lined up for removal - they are there for proper belt installation only. You just need to have all the hard parts in their proper places - and KEEP them there during the installation. The belt is marked to make sure you've got the proper number of teeth between each component so all are properly synchronized but due to the ratio of crank to cams and the unequal number of teeth between marks for crank, left cams and right cams it takes quite a few turns before all six markers line up again. You'll see once you install a belt and crank the engine around by hand a few times to check for interference. I was going to see how many turns it took just for kix but my wimpy arm gave out after about 10 turns. You left the spark plugs out after your last compression test right? Sure makes turning the engine easier!

[Buffy]

I tend to learn things the hardway sometimes, besides I like to see what makes things tick.... quite literally in this case. I haven't checked any of the clearances yet.... probably because I didn't think to do it. The valve cover gaskets are the re-usable type. I can attest that the # 6 cover bolt is a serious pain the the . That was the only bolt that was tough though. Also, taking the power packs out really makes removing the valve cover easy. After that brain fad I decided it was time for a sammich and a Gatoraide!.

I was following Bart's wright up on the timing belt install and his instructions were 180 degrees from your instructions. Bart's instructions have you to align the green mark on the pully with the mark on the oil pump and the dotted line with the notch on the back of the pulley.

[nfpgasmask]

Yeah, its been a while, but as far as I remember it, the GREEN LINES on the pulleys line up with the NOTCHES on the housing. You DO NOT need to line up the marks on the OLD belt to check for correct timing. The marks on the belt are ONLY for reinstallation of a new belt.

Now, from looking at your photos, I would almost say you might be a tooth off here:



But everything else looks correct from what I can see. For every full manual turn of the crankshaft pulley, your tick marks should line up the same every time. And again, I am talking about the marks on the pulleys with the marks on the housing. Only during new belt installation do you pay attention to the marks on the belt. This is to ensure you install the belt correctly and are not a single tooth off.

I think my instructions are a little easier to navigate here:
http://www.nofuture.com/myvx/how-tos/tb/tbelt.htm

Keep us posted.

Bart

[nfpgasmask]

Here's the diagram from the manual, it shows the dotted line on the left and the tick mark on the right lined up with the housing.



So like I said, it looks like you have things correct. I would certainly take this opportunity to change out the tensioner.

Bart

[Marlin]

I have what I thought was the valve ticking also, but I am going to go ahead and replace the tensioner, looks like that can be done without removing the timing belt? I just had the belt put in about 6K miles ago(last Jan).

[SilverBullet75]

Yes, that is correct. You just need to use something to keep the belt in place when you remove the tensioner. A helper with a prybar pushing/lifting the roller arm helps.

[SlowPro48]

Ahh, so you DID tackle the left side valve cover! You're the man! Thanks for the info on the gasket. If you check your valve lash how about letting us know if you've got any out of spec or close to it. It's something that doesn't get checked very often so it would be good info to see what the results are for an example like yours with close to 100K on the clock. I haven't checked mine for three reasons - #6 bolt, not sure about gasket ( i hate scraping/cleaning!) and the #1 reason - what to do if I find one out of spec? I've got shims but that bucket depressor tool is big bucks for something that gets used once every ten years! You blew my first two excuses out of the water so maybe it's time to fab up a tool and dive on in...

RE: timing belt instructions - yes, I was faced with that dilemma because I went by Bart's excellently documented timing belt replacement (except for the radiator removal - I just yanked the hoses and upper fan shroud out of the way and left the rad in - there was still plenty of room to work) but when I got to the part about installing the belt on the crankshaft pulley I saw his instructions didn't jibe with the shop manual, the bulletin or the videos put out by Isuzu - so I went with what the manufacturer said. Bart sorry man but you got outvoted! Take a close look at the figure you just posted. #8 in the illustration shows a closeup of the dots on the belt lined up with tick mark on the FRONT of the pulley - #7 shows the notch at the BACK of the pulley lined up with the mark that is cast in the oil pump housing. Note that the notch lines up with the keyway on the crankshaft. Note that in the illustration, the keyway is 180 degrees from the dotted line on the belt. Now check out the pic of the crank pulley in your instructions and note where the keyway is in relation to the dotted line on the belt.

It obviously works with the crank turned 180 degrees from how Isuzu said to line it up though - so that must be one of the "valid" combinations - i.e., if you line it up the way Isuzu says to do it, then spin it a bunch of times, it eventually ends up with solid belt lines, cam sprocket lines, and head lines all matched up but dotted belt line 180 degrees from point of beginning on the crank sprocket. That's my guess anyway. It could be figured out mathematically but that would require someone with a lot more smarts than me!

[nfpgasmask]

Take a close look at the figure you just posted. #8 in the illustration shows a closeup of the dots on the belt lined up with tick mark on the FRONT of the pulley - #7 shows the notch at the BACK of the pulley lined up with the mark that is cast in the oil pump housing. Note that the notch lines up with the keyway on the crankshaft. Note that in the illustration, the keyway is 180 degrees from the dotted line on the belt. Now check out the pic of the crank pulley in your instructions and note where the keyway is in relation to the dotted line on the belt.

Either we are saying the same thing but in different ways, or I am totally confused with what you are saying!!

Here is my pic:

You can clearly see the tick mark on the crankshaft pulley pointing to the right if you were facing the motor. You can also clearly see the line on the housing.

#8 is described as "Alignment Mark On Timing Belt". That's all it is pointing to. With the timing belt OFF, you can see there are 3 marks. There is the line on the oil pump housing on the right side. There is a NOTCH on the pulley itself on the back, you can see it here:


Then, there is the green tick mark on the FRONT of the pulley.

The dotted line on the NEW belt gets lined up on the LEFT side with the NOTCH ON THE BACK of the pulley (as in the photo above). At the same time, the green tick mark on the FRONT of the pulley gets lined up with the line on the oil pump housing.

So are you telling me that is backwards? If so then my VX has been backwards from the factory!

Either way, whatever I did worked fine. I've put over 20k on my VX since I did the timing belt. What does concern me though is if my instructions have an error or if they are confusing somehow. So kids, please help me work that out! Mark, you used my instructions with success, correct? Did you find any errors you needed to work around? The last thing I want to do is cause confusion and/or problems.

Thanks,

Bart

[MSHardeman]

Bart, the only two issues I came across using your instructions.

One was the location of the short bolts on the water pump. I know in your instructions you said to pay attention to where the short bolts where, but since you had a pretty picture already there, I didn't pay attention. There where one or two more short bolts than you had labeled in your picture so it took me a while to figure out where the other went. No biggie.

The second thing that you forgot to mention was to put the plug back into the bottom of the radiator. Since I tend to be mechanically inept I followed your instructions by the letter and once I got everything back together I started putting fluid back in the radiator and heard it pouring all over the floor. I paniced for a second (thinking something was terribly wrong) until my brain locked in and remember that I hadn't put the plug back in the radiator. Again, no biggie, just me being blond.

As for the instructions on lining up all the marks on the pulleys, belt, and engine; everything worked out great. Followed your instructions to the letter and it all worked out. Went through many miles, and Moab, since the timing belt swap and haven't had an issue yet.

I think everyone is saying the same thing...in a different way.

[psychos2]

I have said it in a previous post. Make marks on the old belt and pulleys before removing, and count the teeth between the marks,make the same marks on the new belt. Install so that your marks line up and you will have no problems. The factory marks on the belt I purchased were wrong so if I had used them my cam timing would have been wrong. shawn

[nfpgasmask]

One was the location of the short bolts on the water pump. I know in your instructions you said to pay attention to where the short bolts where, but since you had a pretty picture already there, I didn't pay attention. There where one or two more short bolts than you had labeled in your picture so it took me a while to figure out where the other went. No biggie.

Hmm, yeah, being that I wrote my how-to after the fact, I might have missed one or two. I'll try to go back and look at my pic/text about the bolts and see if I can't figure it out and make it more clear.

The second thing that you forgot to mention was to put the plug back into the bottom of the radiator. Since I tend to be mechanically inept I followed your instructions by the letter and once I got everything back together I started putting fluid back in the radiator and heard it pouring all over the floor. I paniced for a second (thinking something was terribly wrong) until my brain locked in and remember that I hadn't put the plug back in the radiator. Again, no biggie, just me being blond.

OK now THAT is funny. Sorry about that, I will add that back into my instructions.

I think everyone is saying the same thing...in a different way.

I hope so! Otherwise my instructions might be giving some folks a huge headache!!

Bart

[SlowPro48]

So are you telling me that is backwards? If so then my VX has been backwards from the factory!

Not really "backwards"..... just.... different!

Backwards would be if you lined the cam sprockets up with their marks, took the old belt off, then turned the crank 180 degrees and installed the new belt. Now that would be a biggie. You lined everything up, took the old belt off, didn't move anything, and put the new belt back on - so cams and crank stayed in synch. None of the three components were moved and the number of teeth between each one stayed the same. Nothing changed as far as the engine knew. Nothing backwards about that. There obviously is a point in the rotation sequence where the cam sprockets and marks line up but the dotted line on the belt lines up 180 degrees from where it was first installed on the crank sprocket - otherwise what you did would not work. Or hey - maybe you're just benefiting from the VX's wasted spark ignition! Your #2 is now your #5! Nah just kidding!

Bottom line is you installed the belt with the crank turned 180 degrees from where Isuzu said it should be - but it still works - so no biggie! I doubt they did it one way at the factory and told us to do it another though. Just be glad it lines up both ways!

BTW, sorry for the confusion. I will attempt to clarify using proper Isuzu terminology. The "Alignment Mark on Timing Belt" (aka "dotted line") is suppsed to be lined up with the "Alignment Mark on Crankshaft Timing Pulley" (aka "green tick mark") which is 180 degrees from the "Groove on Crankshaft Pulley" (aka "notch") which is supposed to be lined up with the "Alignment Mark on Oil Pump" (aka "line on oil pump housing"). See image below.

[Buffy]

I will be ordering new everything later this week and am keeping my fingers crossed it fixes it. Until then I am cleaning the engine bay as best I can. It is already looking MUCH better than before. Going to order some rust encapsulator and chassis paint from Eastwood today and work on stopping the rust before it goes any further. Anyone have a favorite rust killer that they've had good results with??

[Ldub]

Anyone have a favorite rust killer that they've had good results with??

http://forum.planetisuzoo.com/viewto...ht=rust+bullet

There is more if you search "rust".