Have I made a mistake?

[LiquidVX]

My obsession with the Vehicross may be getting the better of me. Yesterday I picked up my second VX, the Black 1999 with 35k miles that I have posted about in the past. The car was mostly as described but had an unusual amount of rust for a "garaged" VX with 35k miles. My last one was sold with 76k miles and was in way better condition illustrating once again other people's standard of what is "mint" seems to be much different from my own.


Odometer worries
The Carfax report showed no odometer tampering and the title states the odometer had 32500 on 01/09/10. The Pennsylvania title also says "Odometer Status, 0" meaning actual mileage. However the screws for the dash look like they have been removed and the engine compartment and undercarriage look like they have driven around the world. The interior is good except the plastic for the driver's side handle (its loose) and the back where the owner kept his tools (scuffs and scrapes in the plastic). The brakes don't engaged until the pedal is nearly on the floor and the car pulls to the left when using the brakes. Owner states he has never changed the brakes.

Overall I am thinking he lied about the car being garaged. There is no way it could have this much rust with so little miles and being garaged. If that is the case then it is not a far stretch to imagine he also fibbed about the odometer. But I have no proof- the title and Carfax backs up his claims. However the title also states the car had 32500 miles in January meaning he drove 2500 miles since the title was issued. Guess what this extrapolates to... about 130,000 miles for the 10.5 years he has owned it. Obviously this isn't a large enough time frame for an accurate sample but it still doesn't look good.

Is there another way to tell if the odometer has been tampered with?

[LiquidVX]

Many may be wondering why I would buy a vehicle despite having so many doubts about it. Here is a list.

1. it was the only VX in driving distance with less than 50k miles.
2. if the mileage is truly 35k then it should be a great deal.
3. I had just driven 7.5 hours to see this and really did not want to leave empty handed.

[LiquidVX]

What could this be? The seller had no idea.

[etlsport]

it looks like a gas cap to me

if you take the gauge cluster out, im sure you can see marks on the screws that hold the circuit board on the back if the odo has been tampered with

does it have the factory head unit? if not thats why the dash screws would have been removed

how about wear on the tires? if they are well worn and not the original duelers, might have more miles than he let on, you can always check the date code on the tires

do you have the vin? i would also try calling around to dealerships/service centers in the area you bought the vehicle to see if they have service records for it, most places will log the mileage when its serviced

[BigSwede]

I don't think there is much of an inverse correlation between being in a garage and rust. Sometimes garaging can increase rust, if it is a heated garage. Drive a vehicle through the road salt and then park it in a nice, warm garage all the time - heaven for rust! Whereas sitting out in the cold the chemical reaction known as rust is much slower acting...

[LiquidVX]

do you have the vin?

JACCN57X3X7991984

[BigSwede]

What could this be? The seller had no idea.

Looks like a little paint overspray to me, although why it would be in that particular location doesn't make sense...

[LiquidVX]

Looks like a little paint overspray to me, although why it would be in that particular location doesn't make sense...

My thoughts exactly. I will definitely be refinishing the filler cap.

I just took another photo of the rust.



Is it possible to replace this part in front of the windshield?

[Ldub]

What could this be? The seller had no idea.

Maybe fix it like this...

http://www.vehicross.info/forums/sho...ight=fuel+door

And replace the cap screws with new stainless hardware...

[Travelin2]

I would guess it has been driven on the beach.

[89Vette]

One option is to post CLOSEUP pics of the pedals. See if you can get other owners to do the same. Pedal wear is often a good indicator of actual age.

With the undercarriage rust you've pictured/described, I suspect it wasn't garaged all THAT much and/or it was in a very humid/salty climate (like near the ocean).

[wintermute]

Hi Liquid. I just purchased a VX from NY that has several similar issues.

Selling points for me were 63K miles, clean interior, all stock, and price. I paid $8K which I felt was a bit high after seeing the car in person. I live in CA and had it shipped, since it was the lowest mileage VX I could find for sale at the time for under $10K. Bonus selling points were that this was a Kaiser Black/Red with factory moonroof in good working condition.

Similar issues on mine:
• The gas cap allen bolts are rusted, just as yours are.
• My gas cap and all body panels have light over spray from where the previous owner rattle can spray painted all of the cladding and hood insert. It looks very similar to your gas cap.

I ended up cleaning up most all of the over spray on the body and gas cap with a little bit of carefully applied paint thinner and Meguiar's rubbing compound. I then buffed and waxed the cap (removed from car) and the body. It looks great now. I also replaced all the allen bolts.

I had similar concerns about my reported mileage, even though my carfax checked out and there were no title issues. The seller advertised this car as "no rust" and "never driven in snow" yet there is rust all over the car, albeit at spots where it is very common for rust on these cars. I seriously doubt the "never driven in snow" claim.

• My front bumper support was completely rusted through, and sitting loose in the front bumper.
• The transfer lever was completely rusted through, and broke off in my hands the first time I put it in 4WD locked mode.
• The windshield wipers had a lot of surface rust. Pulled them off and refinished them.
• Rear license light bracket completely rusted through.
• There is surface rust all over the suspension and bolts everywhere on the undercarriage of the car.

I'm working my way through the car restoring as much as I can piece by piece. The frame has some light surface rust spots, but nothing too bad. Body panels are good.

I'm currently waiting for an estimate from a body shop to have all body cladding removed and refinished, since I need to strip the spray paint and it's a bigger project than I want to tackle.

Back to your question. Did you make a mistake? From the pics you posted, it doesn't seem any worse than mine.

However, in my searches it seems that unless the VX was EXCEPTIONALLY well cared for and pampered, these are some very common problems for a 10-11 year old Vehicross, regardless of mileage. If it saw any snow or rain, there are several points on the car that seem to rust fairly easily.

[LiquidVX]

I paid $8K which I felt was a bit high after seeing the car in person

Well that makes me feel pretty stupid. I paid $11k! I could not get the guy to go down. We discussed price over the phone and I was willing to pay $11k based on his description. I guess he figured he had me over a barrel considering how far I had come to just see the car, and he knew I had the money since we were talking $11k initially.

• My front bumper support was completely rusted through, and sitting loose in the front bumper.
• The transfer lever was completely rusted through, and broke off in my hands the first time I put it in 4WD locked mode.
• The windshield wipers had a lot of surface rust. Pulled them off and refinished them.
• Rear license light bracket completely rusted through.
• There is surface rust all over the suspension and bolts everywhere on the undercarriage of the car.

- ditto.

The car is from Kittanning, PA where there is no ocean but there is a river. I think road salt is the main culprit since there is little white spots everywhere there is rust.

I may not have made a mistake but I have certainly learned some valuable lessons from the experience.

[VX KAT]

The car is from Kittanning, PA where there is no ocean but there is a river. I think road salt is the main culprit since there is little white spots everywhere there is rust.

I grew up right around there, seriously tough on cars...rust came through on all the sheetmetal, despite that "undercoating" they always charged ya for.

[wintermute]

Well that makes me feel pretty stupid. I paid $11k! I could not get the guy to go down. We discussed price over the phone and I was willing to pay $11k based on his description. I guess he figured he had me over a barrel considering how far I had come to just see the car, and he knew I had the money since we were talking $11k initially.

I may not have made a mistake but I have certainly learned some valuable lessons from the experience.

I wouldn't beat yourself up about it. You have almost half the miles I do on your odometer, which is a good thing. I don't think the wear you pointed out necessarily means the mileage is inaccurate. Anything is possible, but it could have low mileage and still have sat outside in the weather.

I've seen VXs in worse condition with higher asking prices. Many. I've also seen lower priced ones that looked cleaner from the outside. How is your VX mechanically? With 35K, it should be in great running shape. If the wear on yours is mostly cosmetic, than I would say you're still in pretty good shape. With some TLC, that VX can be good as new.

Forgot to mention, the VX I bought has a warped exhaust manifold/leak and I just opted to put a new timing belt in it due to the mileage and signs of neglect, just to be safe. $$$

I think I learned some valuable lessons in my transaction too. Hindsight is always 20/20. On the bright side, we have projects for the summer, and rare, relatively low mileage VXs worth restoring, IMO.

The low miles on your odometer should help you with resale down the road, should you decide to fix it up and sell it later.