manual transfer case swap

[RamAirZ]

Ya me and him discussed this swap not long ago via PM, I think he just wants to get rid of TOD (like me). I like having 2wd as an option as well as 4HI, that and the availability of lower gears is a nice option too. We already confirmed that he can bolt everything up and go, the only sensors that would be screwy would be for the TOD itself but if he already has those problem, well then he probably doesn't care lol

[BigMeatVX]

Hmmm

Ok I was just making sure he realized that he could have 2WD and normal TOD and 4WD-HI range....all with the TOD case he already has...


I have disassembled a TOD case and I can assure folks how it works both internally and externally....

I will start a new TOD thread soon, with detailed pics of the inside, showing how it functions....AND describe different ways to modify it to folks liking...
Also, some cool new tricks to allow different torque splits at will....

[RamAirZ]

Wasn't someone working on that before and figured out the electromagnetic clutch portion would always transfer a little power to the front or something? Would be awesome for some folks to be able to have 2wd, 4hi, 4lo and normal tod, be nice for 2wd on nice sunny days but pop it in tod for rough weather (snow, rain etc) without being in full 4wd. I like having the simplicity of the manual case and then I can drop in some lower t-case gears.

[BigMeatVX]

Yes well sort of....

With TOD disconect switch, I am in 2WD mode....I can spin the rear tires endlessly, at will, W/O the front getting any REAL torque....the front is VERY disconnected in this mode....

ON the Dyno, folks HAVE had issues with the front wanting to pull a little bit, BUT this is with the front tires sitting still and the rears spinning at 70+MPH!!!
Difficult to repeat in real world driving....

With the TOD 4HI modifacation, you will have 50/50 torque split, (with no delayed grabbing) and this is a one wire mod!!!!

Normal TOD....we all know how that performs....
4Lo- 50/50 LOCKED....TOD is off...

There were some folks, a while back, that were working on a Pulse Width Modulation controller that would have SUPPOSEDLY allowed variable torque....0-50% to front axle....But that plan was scrapped a while ago???....

Nowdays, after tearing into a TOD unit myself, I can indeed see how simple it is to design a modifacation that will allow a steady 30/70% torque split as well, and possibly a few other pre-determined ratios....20/80% ect.....

I may even modify my current TOD unit, so as to remove the shift fork that locks the 4x4 in low range....In other words, I want to experament with LO-Range TOD....I feel that that the clutched design can and will save my CVs!!!! as the multi-clutch plates would absorb much driveline shock!

[RamAirZ]

I've read the write-up Tad did over on the Planet for the 4HI switch, if I change my mind and keep my TOD I was planning on this. Look forward to seeing what you come up with, I have manual hubs up front now and can spin my tires pretty freely as well but of course it's not real 2wd. I thought I read on here that even with the TOD off switch you still send SOME power up front but still, it's less than without it so that's always a plus.

[BigMeatVX]

Im uploading a few pics of the internals for folks to gaze at...lol...

There is a detent spring that holds all the disks in the free position, when there is no power going to the coil (elctromagnet)...SO....there should be very little, if any, power sent thru the front driveshaft in TOD disconect mode...UNLESS of course you incur some sort of drivline shock/torque that could overcome the detent spring....

Here are a few pics...notice the 3 balls that sit in the "bevelled ramps"
Pic 2 is ramp down or 2WD
pic 3 is ramp up or 4x4 50/50 split

[BigMeatVX]

The coil (elctromagnet) actually pulls the back plate away, allowing the balls to travel up the ramps ....


As the balls travel up the bevelled ramps, the two plates get wider...this puts force on the many clutch disks...the harder it turns (driveline torque) the farther up the ramp the balls go and the more force on the plates!!!!

[RamAirZ]

very interesting! Makes me want to go tear my tranny out lol. I love tearing things apart haha, of course putting them back together is always fun too

[So-CalVX]

big meat... my TOD decided to lock up permanently while i was wheeling out on some rocks at the beach... i tried everything listed and other things to get it back to normal but it wouldn't go so i unplugged the computer and that put me in (what i'm assuming is) 2wd. i'm sure the front end is still spinning as i left everything connected but when i disconnected the computer i was no longer locked and i could do burnouts (which i couldn't do with the tod on)
so i am looking for the more info like ram air and i have been chating about on swapping in a roddeo/trooper t-case
from what i recollect i can bolt up an early 90's t-case from either and get a custom longer front shaft and i'll be golden... so i'm looking into that
by the way... i love seeing the insides of anything mechanically relevent to my baby... keep those interesting pics coming

[RamAirZ]

I think your front shaft will work but it's the rear that needs modified when going to the manual case, the overall length is shorter on the manual case. The cases before 95' don't have the SOTF motor on them so makes everything a little simpler. The only sensor back there are the VSS and then whatever the TOD uses but since the TOD computer is unplugged you shouldn't see any new issues.

[BigMeatVX]

Be sure to look for a T-case out of a LATE 90s (not early 90s) TROOPER....
Rodeo ones are ALL intergral....meaning you cant just unbolt it and swap it out....

I do have a 99 Trooper T-Case out of a NON-TOD rig...I am not useing any more....(YES I had it mounted on my VX for about one year)
Yes, it bolts right up to the auto 4l30e that we have in the VX...Let me know if you want it....

However keep in mind that this case is ONLY 2:1 in low range....This is the main reason that I removed it and went BACK to the TOD...I know that there are lower gears availble, but didnt choose to go that route....

Lastly, the rear driveline does NOT bolt up....the flanges (and splines) are different... I had to have a new flange made....
And the front output is different as well....
You will need the front driveline off a trooper (I also have this) and it uses traditional u-joints instead of our superior CV style ones....

[RamAirZ]

Not true, early 4L30 t-cases can be swapped out and are EASIER to do because you don't have a SOTF motor on the case, this has also been verified by Jerry Lemond. Jerry believes the flanges on the early case are the same as our VX as well but either way that's not a huge deal, the front length should stay the same the rear should need to be modified. Worst case scenario buy the driveshaft from the donor vehicle just for the flanges in case you need them and if the rear needs lengthened like I think it should it shouldn't be much and any driveline shop should be able to do it fairly reasonable. Only the MUA5 transmissions had integral cases.

[RamAirZ]

Here's a pic of a 92-97 trooper case:

[RamAirZ]

A PM from Jerry:

"YES MANUAL SHIFT T/C WILL BOLT RIGHT ON, AND BEA RELATIVELY EAYS SWAP AS LONG AS YOU USE A 92-95 TROOPER OR 93-95 RODEO, ANYTHING LATER WILL HAVE THE SHIFT ON THE FLY MOTOR ON THE T/C AND THAT WILL HAVE TO BE WIRED UP TO WORK, EASIER TO USE THE MANUAL T/C ,,

DRIVE SHAFTS WILL HAVE TO MODIFIED, SLIGHTLY JUST THE LENGTH, I THINK THE DRIVE FLANGES ARE THE SAME ON THE V/X AS THE EARLY T/C , THE LATER ONES LIKE ON THE 98 AND UP TROOPER ARE MUCH BIGGER, I DONT THINK THE VX HAS THE LARGER YOKE FLANGES , BUT THEY ARE NOT HARD TO SWAP ANYWAY , ANY DRIVE SHAFT SHOP AND SW THEM ,

ANY OF TH E 5SPD 4WD MUAS WILL BOLT RIGHT TO THE ENG AND ANY 3.2 0R 3.5 FLYWHEEL AND CLUTCH SET WILL WORK, , THE PEDAL ASSY UNDER THE DASH IS ALMOST IDENTICAL FROM A TROOPER TO THE RODEO , WHERE IT BOLTS TO THE FIREWALL, BUT THE PEDALS ARE DIFF LENGTH AND DIFF ARCH , AND I AM NOT SURE OF THE ARC ON THE VX , PROB CLOSER TO THE SAME AS THE RODEO, THAN THE TROOPER , WHICH HAS A LONG PEDAL, ARM. ON THE MANUAL 5SPD YOU WILL PROB HAVE TO MODIFY THE CROSS MEMBER AT THE MOUNT , SINCE THEY ARE A DIFF LENGTH THAN THE TOD SET UP FOR THE MUA,"



I thought I had pics of the case I pulled out of a 93' Rodeo when we rebuilt my friends Rodeo but I don't. Here is an ebay link to a case from a 95' passport showing it's removable

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...category=33727

[BigMeatVX]

Your right ,

I should have clarified ALL rodeo MANUAL transmissions have an integral T-case...of cousre the autos do not....


No need to change the transmission/crossmember mounts though....they are the same....

And the flanges both input and output ARE different (as are the spline count)
On the TOD case VS the aisan one (in your above pic)

That (in your picture) is the exact T-case I have already used in my VX


Lastly the VX DOES use the Larger (huge) flange and u-joint at the rear of the transfercase....not compatable with any rodeo I know of....

Finally, The 3.2 and 3.5 flywheels are NOT the same....the 3.2 uses a smaller clutch disk and the flywheel in not machined for the larger 3.5 disk....
However, if you were haveing the flywheel turned anyway, it would be feasable to have the shop increase the diameter of the disk area to that of a trooper....as the REST of the flywheel is IDENTICAL.....

You could use the 3.5 flywheel in a 3.2 application but not the other way around (without mods, or running a smaller clutch than the 3.5 came with)