Now let's talk about tie rods ... do whatever you want to those ... they never break.Originally Posted by ZEUS
HEY! You keep your clear water comments to yourself!
Super VXer
Now let's talk about tie rods ... do whatever you want to those ... they never break.HEY! You keep your clear water comments to yourself!
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Put a smiley after you say that Bub.
Super VXer
Well actually... with an offset from Hell...
Sent from my "two hands on a keyboard"
Super VXer
Ldub - I see what you're saying - had to do a little more visualizing there. You're right. I'm wrong. As long as the torsion bar is not pre-loaded to the point where the suspension is topped out, it doesn't matter if the lift is achieved by reindexing or by cranking the torsion bar - when ride height is increased, suspension travel from "baseline" to bump stop is increased - therefore max torque the torsion bar can experience is increased the same amount no matter which method you use. If you crank past the point you're topped out you would increase the max torque seen by the torsion bar, however, as each ft-lb of preload at the top of travel is a ft-lb added at the bottom of travel. But I doubt if anybody would keep cranking after the VX stops going up. There's probably not that much adjustment range is there? You'd have to re-index to do that!OK I gotta get back to my crack pipe now. Thanks for the mental excercise!
Tom - Yeah there's no problem with safety - I wasn't saying that. It's just that the VX won't handle as well if you crank so much preload in that you're riding way higher in the stroke than the designer intended. At three inches higher than normal ride height you're probably not that far from being topped out. When off-road racing on two wheels you want race sag (that would be the equivalent of VX ride height with you and your gear in it) to be set so that you're about 1/3 down into the stroke and I imagine it's a similar setup for best suspension compliance when you're in the four wheel realm too. It's not good for handling/traction if you're topping out all the time. But then I guess the aim here isn't good high speed off-road handling anyway is it? Nobody's running in a rally or a SCORE desert race or anything - they just want more ground clearance to prevent getting hung up and keep from ripping stuff off the bottom of their VX as they crawl over rocks!
Super VXer
Nope - it's all about the big tires.
Go big or go home.
Super VXer
That's mighty gracious of you to say, & truth be told, I was starting to think that I might have been looking at from the wrong end of the pipe...Ldub - I see what you're saying - had to do a little more visualizing there. You're right. I'm wrong. As long as the torsion bar is not pre-loaded to the point where the suspension is topped out, it doesn't matter if the lift is achieved by reindexing or by cranking the torsion bar - when ride height is increased, suspension travel from "baseline" to bump stop is increased - therefore max torque the torsion bar can experience is increased the same amount no matter which method you use. If you crank past the point you're topped out you would increase the max torque seen by the torsion bar, however, as each ft-lb of preload at the top of travel is a ft-lb added at the bottom of travel. But I doubt if anybody would keep cranking after the VX stops going up. There's probably not that much adjustment range is there? You'd have to re-index to do that!
Tom - Yeah there's no problem with safety - I wasn't saying that. It's just that the VX won't handle as well if you crank so much preload in that you're riding way higher in the stroke than the designer intended. At three inches higher than normal ride height you're probably not that far from being topped out. When off-road racing on two wheels you want race sag (that would be the equivalent of VX ride height with you and your gear in it) to be set so that you're about 1/3 down into the stroke and I imagine it's a similar setup for best suspension compliance when you're in the four wheel realm too. It's not good for handling/traction if you're topping out all the time. But then I guess the aim here isn't good high speed off-road handling anyway is it? Nobody's running in a rally or a SCORE desert race or anything - they just want more ground clearance to prevent getting hung up and keep from ripping stuff off the bottom of their VX as they crawl over rocks!
But no matter how I tried to get my head wrapped around how reindexing would change the force needed, I couldn't do it.
IMO, a good discussion isn't about who's right or wrong, it's about getting to what's really going on, & I think we might be there...
Of course, there is still room for further views that might not be exactly the same.
I was kinda hoping that one of our members with a broader understanding of mechanical engineering than I have, would step in & splain it better.
Here's to you, for being a good sport & playing nice...
Super VXer
And I did...
Super VXer
I have no response to that.And I did...
Super VXer
BAD oversight on my part, most humble apology to you Sir...And I did....
.
Super VXer
Well yah...that & lookin' cool az H3II with our "go big or go home" tires, & offset from h3II...
Super VXer
So, in reading this whole thread... I want to pose a new scenario/question.
In theory... To decrease nose-dive on braking, could you use Ascinder's method, by re-indexing the torsions at a "lowered" stance, then crank them up to stock height, giving them added tension/firmness?
Just a thought.
---JIM---
SilverBullet75
Formerly: '01 Ebony VXSTLTH
Now: '08 Saab 9-7x Aero 6.0L
Super VXer
IMO...
It shouldn't matter where the TB's are indexed...it still requires the same amount of force, to maintain the same load, at the same height...no matter what that height is, stock, lowered, or lifted.
But that's just me, I'm a different breed of cat...
I mean no disrespect towards anyone's opinion, and as always, mine is worth exactly whatcha paid for it, maybe even less...
Super VXer
After having done some further research into this I believe Larry and Justin were in fact correct. I had been informed that the torsion bars functioned differently than they actually do. If you look around on the internet there is a lot of information out there, as well as a lot of misinformation. I read some explanations of they worked and didn't really give it another thought, that was my mistake.
Getting back to your question:
Yes, I believe you could, but not for the reasons I mentioned. Justin(ZEUS) pointed out that my suspension felt stiffer due to the increased angles on the drivetrain and suspension components because now in order to nose-dive, the A-arms and wheels must be forced outwards in order to be able to move downwards. It takes more force because you are now working against leverage to squat the front end. Again, sorry for putting out any bad info.n theory... To decrease nose-dive on braking, could you use Ascinder's method, by re-indexing the torsions at a "lowered" stance, then crank them up to stock height, giving them added tension/firmness?
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable man persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on me.
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