Super VXer
That actually makes sense, but I could have sworn I read that you are putting increased tension(torsion) on the bars to acheive the lifting. In essence, winding up a spring to have it apply pressure(downwards in this case) to gain clearance. Maybe my info was bad. So it's just suspension geometry breaking bars and not indexing? Somethings missing there.
The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable man persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on me.
Super VXer
I think it's that combination of weighty accessories, hard-core use, and the springs' struggle to control oversize/heavier tires/unsprung weight. I've never known anyone who has broken a torsion bar tho so can't really say - I would love to hear what that sounds like!!! ...On someone else's rig!Originally Posted by Ascinder
Sent from my "two hands on a keyboard"
Super VXer
From the torsion bar's viewpoint, it DOESN'T matter - as long as the VX is just sitting there...Sorry Beau, but I just can't get past the fact that the same amount of force is required to lift the same amount of weight to the same height. It shouldn't matter if the bar ends are in position "A" or position "B"...
When you're actually using your suspension travel, however, it DOES matter!
For the sake of discussion let's say there's 1,000 lbs on each corner of the VX and the distance between the center of the torsion bar and the hub is 1 foot - so with the VX just sitting there, the torsion bar feels 1,000 ft-lbs of torque. Like you pointed out, unless you've cranked so much the suspension is topped out, the only significant variables involved are mass of VX, gravity and length of lever, which are all constant.
BUT - let's say you take that stock ride height VX out for a spin, hit a big G-out and bottom the suspension. Let's also say for the sake of discussion front suspension travel from normal ride height to bump stops is 5 inches and spring rate is 300 lb/inch* - so at the point of bottoming out, your torsion bar feels 2,500 ft-lbs of twist. You hate bottoming out so easily though - so you raise the ride height a couple inches by cranking the torsion bar. Now you've got seven inches of travel from ride height to bump stops. Sweet! You can go even faster through that G-out before you bottom out the suspension - at which point the torsion bar now feels the effects of 3,100 ft-lbs of torque (two more inches at 300 lbs/inch = 600 ft-lbs more torque) and like any other spring it probably doesn't like being twisted by 3,100 ft-lbs as much as it does 2,500 ft-lbs...
Cranking the torsion bar increases ride height but that's just a side effect of increased pre-load. It's fine for small adjustments but Ascinder's method adjusts ride height directly, allowing you to keep pre-load within stock range even for larger adjustments to ride height.
*yeah I know - proper units for spring rate of torsion bars would be in force/angle but lever length is same so using force/distance doesn't have any bearing on outcome - for that matter, all these numbers are made up for simple illustration purposes
Super VXer
So by this theory, reindexing the torsion bar "magically" reduces the amount of force required to lift a given amount of weight (load) to the same height?
OK, if you say so...
At this point, I'm willing & able to agree to disagree...
Also, reindexed or not, the suspension travel from like heights, through the full available motion (when it hits the bump stop) is the same, creating the same amount of torsional force for a given amount of travel.
Last edited by Ldub : 03/05/2010 at 06:33 AM
Super VXer
The bottom line is that it appears safe to lift 3" using the torsion bar crank (been proven on a fairly large number of our VX's). If you need to go much higher than that though ... better start looking at other options such as a body lift.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Put a smiley after you say that Bub.
Super VXer
HEY! You keep your clear water comments to yourself!
Super VXer
Now let's talk about tie rods ... do whatever you want to those ... they never break.HEY! You keep your clear water comments to yourself!
Super VXer
If I'm understanding your point properly, you are right about lifting beyond stock ride height increasing the torsional load required to maintain the increase in height.
But on the other point you are making, I have never heard of anyone having recurring problems with torsion bar breakage.
The H-D ones that are available from Indy 4X would most likely require fewer cranks to achieve a higher than normal ride height, but IMO, that would be due to their larger than stock H-D construction, giving them more torsional force, requiring less crankage to achieve the same amount of lift.
Super VXer
After talking to the guys over at Independent4x for about half an hour the other day, he explained to me that the HD Torsion bars are probably the #1 best way to increase your on road handling in the VX. The way he explained it to me, was that basically when you lift the rear end with harder and longer springs, to do the same thing to the front you would need HD torsion bars. They act like stiffer "springs" in the front, and can be used to compensate for softer shocks than needed on the front. One of the guys there said he was about to sell his trooper and then the owner of Indepedent4x convinced him to try to HD torsion bars first, after he did that he said it was like a new car and performed better than ever, so he kept it indefinitely after that one mod.....
Made me really want to do this upgrade:
https://id211.chi.us.securedata.net/...products_id=86
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