15 VX's destroyed and lost for ever!

[lasturbo]

Another successful government program

I had this on the other thread rickshaw started, so in case you did not see it, and saddened by the loss of our 15 brothers/sisters, here is how successful the program was if you break it down this way:

A vehicle at 15 mpg and 12,000 miles per year uses 800 gallons a year of gasoline. A vehicle at 25 mpg and 12,000 miles per year uses 480 gallons a year.

So, the average clunker transaction will reduce US gasoline consumption by 320 gallons per year. They claim 700,000 vehicles – so that's 224 million gallons per year.

That equates to a bit over 5 million barrels of oil…
5 million barrels of oil is about ¼ of one day's US consumption. And 5 million barrels of oil costs about $350 million dollars at $75 per bbl.

So, we all just spent $3 billion...to save $350 million.

Hmmmmmmmmm. How good a deal was that?
But, I'm thinking that they’ll probably do a great job with health care, though!

and if GM had to file bankruptcy , where did they get the money to expand their manufacturing plant in China ???

[rickshaw]

Download the list of trade-in vehicles
The official CARS trade-in list (page 79) reveals that there were (15) VXs traded-in.
1999 (9)
2000 (4)
2001 (2)

[handeeman]

I'm saying that those VX's don't have to be crushed, they just can't be put back on the road again. If any of you have salvage yard contacts they can put out an APB to other salvage yards looking for VX's. We might can find them before some moron decides their not worth anything and crushes them.

[Y33TREKker]

...here is how successful the program was if you break it down this way:

True, the money involved is one way to break it down.

Another way to break it down though is the the amount of exhaust emissions emitted by each clunker compared to the emissions output of each vehicle being purchased as a replacement.

Bottom line (pun intended ), if the environment got so screwed up in the long run that it was no longer liveable, there would be nowhere to spend the money being saved on the fuel being pumped through those vehicles that were continuing to exponentially screw up the environment.

Sucks about those VX's though.

[Triathlete]

True, the money involved is one way to break it down.

Another way to break it down though is the the amount of exhaust emissions emitted by each clunker compared to the emissions output of each vehicle being purchased as a replacement.

Bottom line (pun intended ), if the environment got so screwed up in the long run that it was no longer liveable, there would be nowhere to spend the money being saved on the fuel being pumped through those vehicles that were continuing to exponentially screw up the environment.

Sucks about those VX's though.

Including those natural gas vehicles?

[Y33TREKker]

Including those natural gas vehicles?

Well I don't know the specific models you're referring to, but my guess would be yes, recently produced natural gas vehicles (and probably even older natural gas vehicles) would most likely have better (more reduced) emissions because of newer, more advanced emissions controls/systems than most of the older vehicles that qualified for the Cash For Clunkers program.

But then, natural gas burns cleaner than gasoline anyway.

Natural Gas Car Highs: Cleaner & Cheaper than Gasoline

[Y33TREKker]

Including those natural gas vehicles?

On second reading, I noticed that the natural gas vehicles you were most likely referring to were the 800+ highlighted in your original post?

It was my understanding that for vehicles to qualify, their mpg's had to be a certain amount worse than the vehicle they were being traded in for, so while there are obviously exceptions to every rule, the emissions technology on those older natural gas vehicles still must not have compared well enough to the emissions technology on the newer vehicles.

While money was obviously a big factor in the program (boosting the economy, helping the automotive industry, etc.), wasn't the overall intention for creating the program a means of helping to clean up the environment? As crazy as it sounds for a person to say it in this day and age, money ain't everything.

[ZEUS]

What really did this program do to clean up the environment tho? One car for another car? The lessened evironmental effects of going from one car to another car, regarding the number of cars traded, aren't even noticable. Most of the vehicles purchased are not going to do anything to improve or lessen the effects the crushed cars had on the environment. It perhaps shifts the type of pollution to be inflicted on the world but anything more than that is simply wishful thinking. Better fuel economy = drive more = same pollution. All I see that came from Cash for Clunkers is a bunch of people (tax payers) buying cars for other people. It was an automotive welfare program! As someone else said, it didn't do anything but make for a strong 3rd quarter and weak 4th quarter, it also increases the deficit and puts more strain on the rest of us who weren't looking to buy new cars. So really, yeah, even in this scenario, money IS everything!The rest is a smoke screen... ironic really, being that pollution was supposedly the reason behind it all...

On second reading, I noticed that the natural gas vehicles you were most likely referring to were the 800+ highlighted in your original post?

It was my understanding that for vehicles to qualify, their mpg's had to be a certain amount worse than the vehicle they were being traded in for, so while there are obviously exceptions to every rule, the emissions technology on those older natural gas vehicles still must not have compared well enough to the emissions technology on the newer vehicles.

While money was obviously a big factor in the program (boosting the economy, helping the automotive industry, etc.), wasn't the overall intention for creating the program a means of helping to clean up the environment? As crazy as it sounds for a person to say it in this day and age, money ain't everything.

[Y33TREKker]

What really did this program do to clean up the environment tho?...

Well as they say, it's the thought that counts. I doubt that anyone was thinking that one program was going to solve everything, but nothing is going to improve if no one does anything. So, environmentally speaking, it was hopefully at least a step in the right direction.

Only time will tell what sort of impact program(s) like that will have in the long term.

[circmand]

Well as they say, it's the thought that counts. I doubt that anyone was thinking that one program was going to solve everything, but nothing is going to improve if no one does anything. So, environmentally speaking, it was hopefully at least a step in the right direction.

Only time will tell what sort of impact program(s) like that will have in the long term.

But that thought cost us $700,000,000,000 and got us nothing. What they should have done was buy clunkers from impound lots and dealer auctions for less. They could have taken a lot more vehicles and spent billions or less.