**Patriotic Retirement**

[Jolly Roger VX'er]

I've worked jobs that are non-union as well as 2 jobs that were union and believe either can succeed if run properly; and feel that alot of the positives found in todays non-union jobs can be traced back to the past when unions fought for those rights.

I don't like how everyone is focused on what unionized work forces are struggling and drawing a generalization from them and applying it to everybody. Sure the car companies that have unions are ready to go under. But, the blame can be spread around in alot of directions. Chrysler is headed up by Bob Nardelli, he used to be MY plant manager...what a useless corporate dictator. Home Depot was dumb enough to hire him as CEO and he about run them into the ground...now Chrysler does the ultimate, dumb move and hires him to run a car company!

If you want to talk about a unionized company that is doing well...look at John Deere.

I personally work for GE. We are union...and even though the GE stock has fell into the toilet...it can all be traced back to GE Capital. It is the black hole of the whole corporation; as even though our unionized manufacturing division was making record profits building locomotives for sale worldwide...The Capital division was busy making bad loans and morgages which in the end sucked away our profits (black hole analogy).

Never felt I was owed anything by anybody. Worked hard for what I've managed to get in my life; only buying what I can afford...I bought a $50k house 9 years ago with a 15yr. morgage with payments that are equivalent to what I paid for rent when living in apartments even though the bank tried diligently to get me to go for a $120k house. Financed and paid for the VX. Saved up & paid outright for a new diesel kubota tractor and suzuki V-Strom motorcycle. Wanted a new sports car...could've gotten a new challenger, camaro or mustang with my credit rating...settled for an '07 Mustang GT (Premium pkg.) coupe w/ 5k miles on odometer for $19k.

Bottom line, having worked minimum waged jobs & factory union jobs...will do whatever is necessary to survive in this world. If this job goes under...I'll most likely look at being a truck driver as my next profession. Change can be good!

P.S.- I tried getting a job as an autoworker 20 years ago. I never did hear what they paid hourly...I just loved cars and thought building them for a living would be FUN. I even tried getting a job at Harley Davidson...came real close...never did hear what they paid...thought building Harley's would be FUN! Notice a pattern here???

[nocturnalVX]

Sure the car companies that have unions are ready to go under. But, the blame can be spread around in alot of directions. Chrysler is headed up by Bob Nardelli, he used to be MY plant manager...what a useless corporate dictator. Home Depot was dumb enough to hire him as CEO and he about run them into the ground...now Chysler does the ultimate, dumb move and hires him to run a car company!

P.S.- I tried getting a job as an autoworker 20 years ago. I never did hear what they paid hourly...I just loved cars and thought building them for a living would be FUN. I even tried getting a job at Harley Davidson...came real close...never did hear what they paid...thought building Harley's would be FUN! Notice a pattern here???

Perfect example!
FACT:
From 1973-1983, Harley-Davidson’s market share went from 78% to 23% as Japanese manufacturers flooded the market with high quality, low priced bikes.

Harley was going to fail because of serious mis-management and the fact that they had a piss-poor product. The company turned around because they not only started to make a better bike, but people that cared about the company took control. Then President Ronald Reagan imposed a tariff on import bikes over 700cc. That gave Harley a little help, and we didn't have to give them billions to take spa vacations. By 1987, Harley was profitable again, and asked the government to end the tariff... yes, THEY stopped it. Since then Harley has opened more factories, dealers, and created thousands of jobs here in America.

The U.S. (made in Canada/Mexico/Germany/South Korean/Australia) auto industry (for the most part) refuses to up their game, but will take money from the taxpayers. Hey! How about that new Pontiac Solstice coupe with the targa top... that you have to leave at home because there is no place to store it in the car. The 1972 Fiat X1/9 even solved THAT mystery. Hope it never rains on your road trip...

[tom4bren]

"As far as things that should not have been said, that's just crazy"

'People who generalize are stupid'

Izzat better?

[Marlin]

"As far as things that should not have been said, that's just crazy"

'People who generalize are stupid'

Izzat better?

Nicely done, a bit of a personal attack, but clever just the same. As far as the generalizations or stereotypes, by definition, they are mostly true. Do not even assume for a second that I believe that all union workers are lazy, or that all poor people are poor because of their own actions, there are always exceptions. That is why it's "general". But the same as the electoral college works, 51% of a state votes democrat, then all of the electoral votes for that state go to the Democrat candidate, generalizing that whole state as Democrat. (Just an example) Insurance companies do it everyday, hence young males pay far more in auto insurance than the same age female, because generally, a young male is more likely to do something dumb, probably to show off for a girl. Therefore their insurance is higher. I have never been in an accident that was deemed my fault, but I still paid the higher rate when I was young. Any company that sells any product, generalizes and stereotypes their marketing in order to maximize their sales. So you must be right, 'People who generalize are stupid', therefore, anyone who is in designing, sales, engineering, investing, insurance and so on must be stupid.... which I believe, if I am not mistaken, in some way, is ultimately everyone, except the unemployed, making them the smartest!!!!

[tom4bren]

"So you must be right, 'People who generalize are stupid', therefore, anyone who is in designing, sales, engineering, investing, insurance and so on must be stupid"

My point Xactly

My subliminal point was that the comment itself was a generalization which inferred a diminutive to my own cognizant psychi.

'Nuff big words for today - I have a headache.

BTW, I wasn't trying to attack you personally (sorry if I came across that way). Generalizations happen to be one of my pet peeves - that is what I was attacking.

[Marlin]

"So you must be right, 'People who generalize are stupid', therefore, anyone who is in designing, sales, engineering, investing, insurance and so on must be stupid"

My point Xactly

My subliminal point was that the comment itself was a generalization which inferred a diminutive to my own cognizant psychi.

'Nuff big words for today - I have a headache.

I got the original joke, hence the "very clever" comment
For real LOLLOLOLOLOL. Thanks, you made my day, just got home from work, and I went in yesterday at 0600. Tough to make someone smile after 30 hours at work.

[tom4bren]

BTW,

Wifey wants to visit Charleston either this summer or next to do some ghost tours. I haven't been in that area in years so would like to visit again too. I'll let you know if/when it happens.

Tom