**Patriotic Retirement**

[vt_maverick]

...So is giving it to retards who already failed. Any company accepting government funding should be required to fire all staff in tenure more than 5 years.

Did you guys hear that Rick Wagoner resigned? The initial report was that he was asked by the Obama administration to step down as a condition for receiving government bailout $$$.

IMHO, GM fell apart because (a) a growing percentage of Americans prefer import designs over domestic vehicles, (b) GM made little investment in future technologies until it was too late (selling too many Tahoes while Honda and Toyota were designed hybrids), and (c) so-called "legacy" costs, including retirement and health benefits, made it difficult for GM to price its vehicles competitively without dramatically decreasing profits (read "employee pricing" and "red tag" events).

Of those three reasons, I really think (a) is the biggest problem. Carlos Ghosn took over as CEO of Nissan when it was on the verge of bankruptcy in 2000, and said at the time that "there are no problems a car company can have that can't be solved by good cars." In the first three years of his tenure Nissan created or revamped the 350Z, Altima, Maxima, Murano, Quest, Titan, G35 Sedan/Coupe, M35/45, and FX35/45 (all under the oversight of the VX's chief designer btw), and slashed costs by making hard decisions on reorganizing its supply chain (decades long partnerships were broken to cut costs). Ghosn's management team targeted three years as the timeline to return to profitability, but actually made that target in 18 months. Perhaps most dramatic was the personal accountability that the management team assumed; before they were hired they all signed contracts that required them to resign and return all of their pay if the company wasn't turned around in three years. Come up with better designs, hire better people, and make difficult decisions better and I think GM could be okay.

As for the poor people discussion, my parents taught me to work hard and do the best that I could with what I was given (personally, financially, etc.) For my parents who couldn't make it into a good college, that meant working hard at blue collar jobs and struggling to make ends meet to this day. For me who did have the qualifications to go to a good college, that has meant working hard at much higher paying white collar jobs that afford me a more comfortable financial position. People can't be judged by their economic situation, only on the composition of their personal character and work ethic. In a perfect world those two would be tied together, but unfortunately life doesn't work that way.

[nfpgasmask]

LOL, another thread I missed until it has properly ripened!

I just quickly browsed all the replies, and I think I kinda understand where Marlin is coming from but maybe the semantics are a little off.

I too have a similar resentment but it isn't a resentment of "poor" people. It is a resentment for damn near an entire nation of lazy slobs who think the world owes them something. I know SO MANY people who think that success and stability is something that you just get. My wife and I spent our 20s busting our butts and sacrificing A LOT of normally taken for granted conveniences (like cable TV, your own laundry room, 2 cars, TEVO, Blackberries, and countless other USELESS EXPENSES every other lower-middle class to poor class family has) to get where we are today. And now we have all these people whining about not having enough money but come to find out they have been living WAY over their means for WAY too long. They DESERVE to feel the bottom fall out. They do not deserve to be bailed out. The hard working people of this country should not have to help all the lazy SOBs out there who refuse to work at McDonalds.

I bet I could go out and find 50 Mexican immigrants today who would be willing to haul 150 pound bags of poop to feed their families. Try to find 50 22 year old American kids who would be willing to work that hard. THAT is the problem with this country.

Yes, there were the "baby boomers" and "x-generation" and the "me generation" and now we have the "spoiled rotten delusional generation".

Bart

[Marlin]

I bet I could go out and find 50 Mexican immigrants today who would be willing to haul 150 pound bags of poop to feed their families. Try to find 50 22 year old American kids who would be willing to work that hard. THAT is the problem with this country.

Bart

My neighbors kid won't mow lawns in the summer. It's too hot, and 15 bucks isn't enough. His parents will give him money if he needs it. Takes me about 45 minutes to mow, edge and weed eat. Thats 20 bucks an hour, and he won't do it. That, folks, is our future, World of Warcraft, if there was lawnmowing in that, he would do it for 50 gold

[nfpgasmask]

My neighbors kid won't mow lawns in the summer. It's too hot, and 15 bucks isn't enough. His parents will give him money if he needs it. Takes me about 45 minutes to mow, edge and weed eat. Thats 20 bucks an hour, and he won't do it. That, folks, is our future, World of Warcraft, if there was lawnmowing in that, he would do it for 50 gold

Dude, you couldn't be righter. It's sooo sad. My younger brother (who turns 24 this year mind you) is a textbook WoW kid. I am honestly really quite worried about his health. He was a really handsom looking dude, until about 3 years ago. WoW claimed his body and mind (oh wait, and weed). He is now GROSSLY overweight, has NO COLLEGE education, and very little work experience. I hate to say it but he is the laziest person I know, and he is my brother. I would love to help him but I refuse to help those who do not help themselves first. At this point I am simply worried about him. If he keeps going the way he is going until 30, he is gonna be really sick. And this all stems from excessive parental guilt and continued spoiling and coddling. He has been handed everything on a silver platter since he was 12 years old. But now he is a grown man and their is no excuse. Sad, just sad. I hate seeing my family as part of this problem.

Bart

[pbkid]

Dude, you couldn't be righter. It's sooo sad. My younger brother (who turns 24 this year mind you) is a textbook WoW kid. I am honestly really quite worried about his health. He was a really handsom looking dude, until about 3 years ago. WoW claimed his body and mind (oh wait, and weed). He is now GROSSLY overweight, has NO COLLEGE education, and very little work experience. I hate to say it but he is the laziest person I know, and he is my brother. I would love to help him but I refuse to help those who do not help themselves first. At this point I am simply worried about him. If he keeps going the way he is going until 30, he is gonna be really sick. And this all stems from excessive parental guilt and continued spoiling and coddling. He has been handed everything on a silver platter since he was 12 years old. But now he is a grown man and their is no excuse. Sad, just sad. I hate seeing my family as part of this problem.

Bart

this is what scares the crap outta me with my own generation...how many kids are absolutely addicted to these games that RUIN lives...its been proven to cause divorces and families to fall apart...and in this way there is some laziness in my generation...

however, bart, look at your generation (i think your in your 30's right?), and marlin im not sure how old you are, but if you were a child/teenager/college kid during the 70's...try to tell me that the generations that came out of the 70's were not completely *&#$ed...
i would much rather have a lazy generation that has to learn the hard way that they need to work than to have a generation who is forever ruined by drugs...
hmm, definately seems to be easier to criticize a younger generation once you have done your own stupid actions huh?

and no, im not saying that either of you did drugs and ruined your own future (which i assume neither of you did judging by how intelligent you gentlemen are), however, there are many from that generation that DID ruin their lives with drugs...

now look at my generation, yes their are some lazy people, but at the same time, we are the most technologically intelligent generation EVER, and that may be attributed to the 'laziness'....so dont generalize that ALL young people are lazy...
and at the same time, sometimes things that negative, turn out to be positive

[Scott Harness]

Everybody is so touchy today! I thought everybody born after 1980 was in trouble. Everything has been dumbed-down. Most highschool grads can't do simple math or read above a 5th grade level.Cuts in education and zero attention span(from video games) are part of the problem.

[Marlin]

Everybody is so touchy today! I thought everybody born after 1980 was in trouble. Everything has been dumbed-down. Most highschool grads can't do simple math or read above a 5th grade level.Cuts in education and zero attention span(from video games) are part of the problem.

True true, I teach at the nuclear power school, when I came in, Physics and Algebra2/trig were minimums. Now, I have students who never got past earth science, and never took math past algebra. These kids are the top 10% of the nation on standardized tests!!!

[nfpgasmask]

this is what scares the crap outta me with my own generation...how many kids are absolutely addicted to these games that RUIN lives...its been proven to cause divorces and families to fall apart...and in this way there is some laziness in my generation...

however, bart, look at your generation (i think your in your 30's right?), and marlin im not sure how old you are, but if you were a child/teenager/college kid during the 70's...try to tell me that the generations that came out of the 70's were not completely *&#$ed...
i would much rather have a lazy generation that has to learn the hard way that they need to work than to have a generation who is forever ruined by drugs...
hmm, definately seems to be easier to criticize a younger generation once you have done your own stupid actions huh?

and no, im not saying that either of you did drugs and ruined your own future (which i assume neither of you did judging by how intelligent you gentlemen are), however, there are many from that generation that DID ruin their lives with drugs...

now look at my generation, yes their are some lazy people, but at the same time, we are the most technologically intelligent generation EVER, and that may be attributed to the 'laziness'....so dont generalize that ALL young people are lazy...
and at the same time, sometimes things that negative, turn out to be positive

Yes, I am 33. I dunno, I think to generalize that kids growing up in the 70s were all druggies is just as bad. Sure, in high school and college I did *ahem* experiment a tad, but I never let that crap get the best of me. And after college was over I never looked back. Now, take a look at BOTH my brothers. One is 24 (as mentioned above) and the other is 31. You already heard the story about the 24 year old, and the 31 year old is only half better. His 20s were spent partying hard, and not building his future. And now, BAM, he realizes that life ISN'T a non-stop party, and he is paying for it now.

As always, you can't simply lump everyone into a certain stereo type. All I am saying is that there is a trend among younger generations that I see. And again, it isn't everyone, of course. Furthermore, while I do believe it is a growing trend among younger people, there are still LOADS of older people (late 20s, early 30s) that are just as bad.

Realistically speaking, most of what I am talking about has to do with the way that our family structure has changed over the last few decades. Both parents working, often divorced, etc. Kids are not raised today the same as they were 15 years ago. Sure, some parents strive to give their children that same childhood, but in most cases, it is simply not the same.

For example, when I was 8 years old, I got on my bike (no helmet either) and I was left to my own devices ALL DAY. I would ride out, COMPLETELY FREE, to do whatever I wanted. I might have had $5 in my pocket I earned by mowing the lawn and doing my chores. Maybe I could get some Big League Chew and a comic book that weekend. My parents NEVER worried about me, as long as I was home for dinner. Today, parents are UBER PARANOID about safety. Kids are constantly brought up with more fear and less independence. They are brought up by the TV and the XBOX. (what is more harmful? Growing up a couch potato with no real understanding of the world or the remote possibility of falling out of a tree and breaking an arm or worse, getting kidnapped?) Again Jack, this is not everyone out there, but you know what I am getting at.

I grew up with complete independence. Video games and TV were the BOTTOM of the barrel when it comes to entertainment. That is what I did when it was pouring rain. Otherwise I was out, exploring, catching snakes, falling in creeks, jumping my bike and climbing trees, and most importantly, having true freedom and gaining valuable life lessons that video games and MTV simply do not provide. Kids today are either too fat and lazy to do those things or they are simply forbidden to have that kind of freedom, which is almost worse and even more depressing. My youngest brother grew up on the couch playing Final Fantasy. He DID NOT have the same childhood I had, not even close.

Know what I am saying? Don't think I am saying YOU are a lazy, stupid, spoiled kid...cause I'm not!!

Bart

[pbkid]

Yes, there were the "baby boomers" and "x-generation" and the "me generation" and now we have the "spoiled rotten delusional generation".

Bart

huh, thats interesting...how come as people get older they always think the people younger than them are more stupid or treated differently then THEY were when they were children....maybe because america is full of hypocrits?

[nfpgasmask]

huh, thats interesting...how come as people get older they always think the people younger than them are more stupid or treated differently then THEY were when they were children....maybe because america is full of hypocrits?

Jack, I never said younger people were stupid. And obviously not EVERY SINGLE KID in America today is a spoiled brat that isn't willing to work. Hell, I know plenty of 35 year olds that are that way! I was just saying that there is a growing trend of entitlement in this country. Like I said, I'm sure there are plenty of kids out there today that being raised right, going to school, getting good jobs, etc.

What do you mean by treated differently? I don't really think kids are treated differently. However I do think they are exposed to a lot of different things today that may be shaping their points of view. I think TV and the media play a big part in this, and I definitely believe proper parenting has gone by the wayside in the last 20 years. Teenage kids are growing up on Rob & Big and Real Housewives and this is what they think life is about. Not busting tail and working hard. Sure, my grandfather said the same thing about the children of the 1980s, and you know, he was right. Things were changing, and changing for the worse. And things today are still changing, and still getting worse.

Bart

[Gussie2000]

One of the reasons i reject buying any american made car is due an experiance i had last year when my VX was at the shop because a little tapping,the dealer hand me a 2004 dodge stratus as a rental But what a unlikely surprise I came across with,a car buildt in the 21rst century had no dome light included in the vehicule's standart features,to me that is insulting & unacceptable,having in consideration that the car's brand new price tag that year was $ 17K,the dashboard & radio's design still from the earlier 90's & interior very cheappy looking.Yet stil my younger sis went to a toyota dealer looking at the very 2007 yaris around may month & if you asked me i answered yes,the little chep yaris priced for just 11K had dome light + WMA MP3 capable-full digital radio.American car manufactures not only needs to redesign their vehicule,but also the way the do business.