bart where are you at??

[mdwyer]

First off, please site examples of "better". Personally, I think Akira is not only an awesome story, but quite possibly the greatest feat of conventional animation ever in history.

I've got to play the 'respectfully disagree' card, too. I can respect that it pulls a lot of weight in the world -- and I'm having a tough time thinking of any 'conventional animation' that matches without dipping into Disney. But I just can't believe it gets that spot on your list.

Keep in mind, however, that a large part of why I won't let myself enjoy Akira is just that I'm a pretentious b**tard.

Well, I have to say I respectfully disagree. IMO, digital animation has its place now, but cannot even hold a candle to conventional, hand drawn and painted animation. I have seen Appleseed, Ex Machina and I recently watched Vexille. All three are entertaining films, but are nothing special to me. I really like Masamune Shirow's first Ghost In The Shell film, but it pretty much stops there for me with his stuff.

Bleh. The original Appleseed is dated. Ex Machina is a John Woo movie, complete with the cliche doves. Vexille was an excuse to re-use the digital models from the digital Appleseed. The first Ghost in the Shell was pretty, but kind of empty.

I love Shirow's manga, but most of the movies are actually not very good. A large part of it, I'm sure, is the Japanese mindset, which is somehow offensive to American movie sensibilities. For example, Final Fantasy -- it is a beautiful movie. But the plot is every bit as corny as that in Silent Running. :-P

Some of my other favortie anime films include:
Ninja Scroll
My Neighbour Totoro
Spirited Away (pretty much anything Miyazaki really)

I have to say I love the Animatrix as well. Some of the best stuff I have ever seen in there. I watch loads of anime, so I would defiinitely be interested in what you think is good...and I am not talking about anime serials, that is a whole other can of worms.

Excellent choices. I agree about the Animatrix. There was some beautiful work on that. I would recommend the Cowboy Bebop movie. Although that gets close to the can of worms, I think it stands on its own well enough.

Going through the rest of my Netflix history...

I just recently enjoyed Paprika, when it was available for instant viewing on Netflix. It is by the same guy who did Milennium Actress, so you know you're in for a mind-bending. The same guy also did "Perfect Blue" a few years back, which I didn't like. "Kite" is also near the top of my list, but I'm uncomfortable actually recommending it to anyone...

"Read or Die" was sort of fun, as was "Gun Smith Cats". Both of those are action that's fun to watch. They're the American Lager of Anime Beers...

You might like "Jin-Roh: The Wolf Brigade". That's the porter of anime beers. It is dark and bitter.

"Kaena" is actually French, and is mostly an advert for digital modeling of fluid dynamics. Similar to Final Fantasy in that the plot is sort of eh... but it is pretty!

I have heard the "Grave of the Fireflies" will make the most cold-hearted person in the world cry. It is about child suvivors of the atomic bombing of Japan. I haven't been able to bring myself to see it yet.

You can't go wrong with Miyazaki. "Nausicaa" is my favorite with "Spirited Away" not far behind it. Everybody -- even those people who think they don't like Anime -- should see a Miyazaki film.

[nfpgasmask]

I've got to play the 'respectfully disagree' card, too. I can respect that it pulls a lot of weight in the world -- and I'm having a tough time thinking of any 'conventional animation' that matches without dipping into Disney. But I just can't believe it gets that spot on your list.

Personally, I like Disney the same way I like the Beatles. I respect them as an important part of history, but I for me, it's just not my thing. Typically, I cannot put children's films, animated or otherwise on my "serious" top 10 list, although it is arguable whether or not some of the original Disney stuff is actually for children to begin with.

Keep in mind, however, that a large part of why I won't let myself enjoy Akira is just that I'm a pretentious b**tard.

Don't worry, I am a film geek too, maybe not pretentious, but absolutely opinionated.

Bleh. The original Appleseed is dated. Ex Machina is a John Woo movie, complete with the cliche doves. Vexille was an excuse to re-use the digital models from the digital Appleseed. The first Ghost in the Shell was pretty, but kind of empty.

Agreed. The orignial GITS was a visual treat, no doubt, but the story is absolutely empty, as you say. Thus, back to Akira for me...

I love Shirow's manga, but most of the movies are actually not very good.

I agree. GITS 2 and the series are pretty much blah, imo.

A large part of it, I'm sure, is the Japanese mindset, which is somehow offensive to American movie sensibilities. For example, Final Fantasy -- it is a beautiful movie. But the plot is every bit as corny as that in Silent Running. :-P

I agree. Most of the digital stuff that has come out seems to me to be more of a "flex of the muscles" as opposed to a complete package.

Excellent choices. I agree about the Animatrix. There was some beautiful work on that. I would recommend the Cowboy Bebop movie. Although that gets close to the can of worms, I think it stands on its own well enough.

Agreed. I have seen it, and it is quite good.

I just recently enjoyed Paprika, when it was available for instant viewing on Netflix. It is by the same guy who did Milennium Actress, so you know you're in for a mind-bending. The same guy also did "Perfect Blue" a few years back, which I didn't like. "Kite" is also near the top of my list, but I'm uncomfortable actually recommending it to anyone...

I have seen all three above. I loved Kite, but I understand what you mean about recommending it. It might not settle well with some people. Paprika was beautiful, including the excellent Susumu Hirasawa soundtrack (I love his stuff) but personally, I got lost in that story. I enjoyed Perfect Blue, I thought it was an interesting idea for an anime (more of a serious story devoid of giant robots and cyborgs for once) but it wasn't something lasting for me. Milennium Actress was superb however. Talk about putting a lump in your throat....just a beautiful story.

"Read or Die" was sort of fun, as was "Gun Smith Cats". Both of those are action that's fun to watch. They're the American Lager of Anime Beers...

These 2 I have not seen.

You might like "Jin-Roh: The Wolf Brigade". That's the porter of anime beers. It is dark and bitter.

Loved it! But I caution you, stay away from Mamoru Oshii's live action stuff (like The Red Spectacles and Stray Dog). In my opinion, his live action stuff is brutally painful to get through. Its like he has a decent budget, but blows the whole wad on an awesome 10 minute sequence but then just adds a bunch of boring fluff to make a full length film. Its sucks too, because the opening scene of Avalon ( http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0267287/ ) is one of the most spectacular pieces of digitally enhanced live action I have ever seen, but the entire remainder of the film falls incredibly short.

"Kaena" is actually French, and is mostly an advert for digital modeling of fluid dynamics. Similar to Final Fantasy in that the plot is sort of eh... but it is pretty!

Yup, saw it. Very pretty, but a crappy plot indeed.

I have heard the "Grave of the Fireflies" will make the most cold-hearted person in the world cry. It is about child suvivors of the atomic bombing of Japan. I haven't been able to bring myself to see it yet.

If you haven't seen it yet, watch it. If I had to make a top 3 list of the most depressing films ever made, I would say this film would be in that top 3. It is gut-wrenching, and could very easily make a grown man cry.

You can't go wrong with Miyazaki. "Nausicaa" is my favorite with "Spirited Away" not far behind it. Everybody -- even those people who think they don't like Anime -- should see a Miyazaki film.

Couldn't agree more. Totoro and Spirited Away are my favs, with Porco up there too. Spirited Away is just so fantastically imaginative...it really is wonderful.

Wow, nerdy. All that said, I still love Akira. The story is intense and meaninful and the animation, soundtrack and characters are just absolutely everything I could ask for. The manga is just as good, and as I said before, almost better. I think maybe you just don't like it so much because you think you are "supposed to"? This is definitely where your being pretentious would come into play!

Good discussion, I love movie talk. I think this: "BW 1645161" is my nic on Netflix, add me as a friend!

Bart

[mdwyer]

But I caution you, stay away from Mamoru Oshii's live action stuff Its sucks too, because the opening scene of Avalon ( http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0267287/ ) is one of the most spectacular pieces of digitally enhanced live action I have ever seen, but the entire remainder of the film falls incredibly short.

Toooo late. That movie sucked. It could have sucked a whole bucket of golf balls through a garden hose, it sucked so hard. I wanted so much for it to be cool that I suffered through the whole thing, too. Just... waiting... for... the... cool... to start...

Ur gonna laugh, Amelie was #10 on my list for a few minutes when I was writing my top 10

Have you seen some of the other movies from Jeunet? Or Marc Caro for that matter. I got hooked on them back in the VHS days with "Delicatessen", which is still one of my favorite movies of all time. "City of Lost Children" is them, too. Jeunett is also responsible for "Alien: Resurrection", which while a total insult to the Aliens fan, is pretty much canonical for the Delicatessen/City of Lost Children fan.


Also, as long as we're headed towards movies with subtitles: "Run Lola Run".