Thinking about these bilstien shocks...

[VehiGAZ]

how about replacng the shocks... i found these on ebay...


http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/KYB-4...Q5fAccessories
and will buy them if thats what i need

NOOOOOO!!!! Don't buy KYB Gas-A-Justs!!! Total junk - not nearly strong enough for the VX's springs. That's what I had on my VX when I bought it, and it was a perfect ride - for a rodeo rider! I replaced them within months.

The Bils you linked to are a solid deal - around $260 for a set of 4 is a very decent price, and cheaper than mechanics' parts suppliers. I would call them and see if they have the front shocks in the H1 spec - stiffer. (That' the setup I have.) If I were to do it again, I would see if they have the rears in H2 spec - I think my rear suspension hits sharp bumps too hard.

As noted, if you see a sign of a leak on the top of any of the shocks, they are bad. The Bounce Test (push each corner down hard and release - watch for spring-like bouncing action versus one rebound and a stop) seems straight-forward enough, but does it is very hard to detect a marginal shock by this procedure.

Keep this in mind - a vehicle rides on its springs, which bounce up and down. The shocks are supposed to allow the springs to compress, but counteract the spring's boing-boing-boing tendency. If the spring is acting springy, then the shock is not doing its job. Similarly, you can have a soft spring with too stiff a shock, or you can have a very strong spring (as in the VX) with too soft a shock. Getting the balance right is not so easy- just ask any Civic driver who put sport springs on his ricer but didn't replace the stock shocks.

Good luck!!

[killinformula]

NOOOOOO!!!! Don't buy KYB Gas-A-Justs!!! Total junk - not nearly strong enough for the VX's springs. That's what I had on my VX when I bought it, and it was a perfect ride - for a rodeo rider! I replaced them within months.

The Bils you linked to are a solid deal - around $260 for a set of 4 is a very decent price, and cheaper than mechanics' parts suppliers. I would call them and see if they have the front shocks in the H1 spec - stiffer. (That' the setup I have.) If I were to do it again, I would see if they have the rears in H2 spec - I think my rear suspension hits sharp bumps too hard.

As noted, if you see a sign of a leak on the top of any of the shocks, they are bad. The Bounce Test (push each corner down hard and release - watch for spring-like bouncing action versus one rebound and a stop) seems straight-forward enough, but does it is very hard to detect a marginal shock by this procedure.

Keep this in mind - a vehicle rides on its springs, which bounce up and down. The shocks are supposed to allow the springs to compress, but counteract the spring's boing-boing-boing tendency. If the spring is acting springy, then the shock is not doing its job. Similarly, you can have a soft spring with too stiff a shock, or you can have a very strong spring (as in the VX) with too soft a shock. Getting it right (just ask any Civic driver who put sport springs on his ricer but didn't replace the stock shocks.

Good luck!!

thank you! If the shocks are gone i will betting the bils... thanks a gain for a detailed explanation of what to look for, i will keep my eyes open for oil leaks when she is on lift and will get a friend to help me check for "bounce"

[Riff Raff]

Hmmm. I remember when I bought my first car, a classic 1968 Mercury Cougar (yes, I still have it & is now restored to show quality). Back then, I was 17 and the first thing I wanted to do when I got it home was jack it up in the rear end and put huge meats on the rear axle. I remember my Dad saying: "Son-- the automobile manufacturer's spend millions & millions of dollars designing & perfecting an automobile; and now you're telling me, the first thing you want to do is change it???" Needless to say, I followed my Dad's advice and kept my Cougar 100% stock (and it was the right choice).

What I'm trying to say is that the OEM stock shocks on the VX are the very best there is for the VX, period. As such, only factory OEM Isuzu replacement shocks (with exact same part number) should be used at time of replacement. Any other brand or model of shock on the VX would be a downgrade in performance. Stick with the factory OEM shocks when replacement is needed. You'll be glad you did.

[VehiGAZ]

Point taken, Riff Raff, but $2k for OEM shocks?!?!? I might spend that kind of money for stock shocks on my 928, but that car is - like your Cougar - a "collector" car. The VX is the one and only daily driver for most of us, and needs to be kept running for a reasonable price. And because of Isuzu's abandonment of the US market, any running VX will sooner or later turn into a Franken-VX, half-filled with aftermarket and custom-fabricated parts.

Our man killinformula is not trying to improve on the VX's engineering - he may just have to replace some defective shocks, and the Bils offer pretty much the same ride as the OEM shocks for an eighth of the price . I know they are the same because I compared my Bilstein ride directly to a stock VX's ride, and it is so close that I'd bet not one of us would know if we were riding on Bilstiens unless we were told.

Otherwise, I 100% share your perspective that a lay owner is seldom going to out-engineer a team of professionals. I wish I were smart enough to have figured that one out just using common sense, but it took many, many modification projects on various cars I've owned over the years to learn the lesson - most of the time, you make an improvement in one area, but you pay for it with something that got worse because of your mod.

In the VX's case, the special remote-reservoir OEM shocks are not the only shock in the world that could possibly afford the VX good ride quality in everyday driving. There are lots of off-the-shelf shocks that could have worked. But let's face it - they went with the gimmicky shocks for marketing purposes - to give the VX some high-tech off-road cred.

The other thing to consider is that the fancy-pants OEM shocks are, well, built kind of crappy. It seems like a third of the people here have had one or more OEM shocks go bad well before 75k miles, and some in the first 20k miles. That's a pretty bad failure rate. I would question the wisdom of replacing a ridiculously expensive and prone-to-failure OEM shock with another, when you can get warrantied-for-life Bilsteins for a fraction of the price.

[Riff Raff]

Perhaps another option instead of buying brand new off-the-shelf Isuzu OEM shocks since they're so expensive, is to buy "used" OEM. There has been an enormous amount of VX's wrecked already this Winter, and I constantly see people trying to part-out their VX due to them being totaled (just take a peek at the other threads). Consequently, there should be plenty of decent "used" OEM shocks available still in good shape for cheap money. Time to ponder.

[VehiGAZ]

Point taken again. I'd suggest buying an extra front & rear while you're at it, though, for when they do crap out.

[SlowPro48]

I have to disagree with you there, Vehigaz - the OEMs aren't "crappy" - they're actually very decent dampers. It's just that they have a floating piston instead of a bladder to contain the nitrogen so it's inevitable that a little N2 is going to escape past the seal over the course of thousands of miles. And it will get worse over time as the nitrogen piston seal wears. That doesn't mean it's a bad design. Some of the best shocks in the world utilize it. Look how many top racers run Ohlins on their bike. It does mean you'll probably have to give your shocks a shot of N2 every now and then. If N2 pressure gets too low you get cavitation which creates lots of bubbles. Bubble-filled shock fluid causes loss of damping just like old, sheared, thinned-out shock fluid. Only difference is tired shock fluid is tired all the time - so you can do the "bounce test" with the vehicle sitting in the driveway and tell something's not right - but bubbles separate out after a few minutes of sitting - so when you walk out and do the "bounce test" in the driveway it feels good - then you head down the road and after the first bump you're driving around in BoingBoing City. Try the bounce test immediately AFTER you've driven the vehicle over a good set of bumps or if you're not off-road at least find a dirt road with some washboard or some braking bumps right before an intersection. And bounce the back - the rear overhang accentuates the effect of shocks gone soft. If it's bouncy, your shocks are in BAD shape. I've found that the ride and handling suffer long before the thing fails the bounce test. When I feel the rear compression damping starting to go away, I know it's time for a nitrogen fix. If you wait until your rebound damping is gone (bounce test failure) then you've been riding around on bad suspension needlessly.

Killinformula, if you like the original ride, you might want to try pumping up the OEMs before installing a set of aftermarkets. You might be able to revive them and restore your original ride quality pretty cheap. The bike shop up the road from me charges $10 to do all four. I've been surprised at how long the original shock fluid has held up - 85K miles and still damping well. If a N2 recharge doesn't do it and your OEMs are just plain worn out or they're leaking, you still don't need to pay $2000 for a set of new ones - all wear items can be replaced. They are totally rebuildable unless you have a bent or dinged-up shaft. And it doesn't cost much more than a set of aftermarket, non-reservoir shocks. Actually, if you wanted to buy the parts (sealhead, piston seals, various o-rings) and do it yourself, it would be cheaper than the Bilsteins but it would cost you in time. From what I hear, the fronts with their upside down reservoir are a PITA to bleed. I know when it comes time to rebuild mine I'm calling The Shock Doc, aka Bruce Triplett.

Life's too short to to rebuild shocks...

[TheGanzman]

To add to this thread; from an RV perspective, many owners are unhappy w/the ride/handling characteristics of their stock RV shocks. The "big news" in that arena is Koni FSD Shocks; those folks that have found/installed them for their particular application are universally happy! I can say from experience that a motorhome shares most of the same ride/handling foibles as an SUV; you want 'em firm when you DO - the whole REST of the time, you want a compliant ride with good rebound and handling characteristics. If someone wants to do some checking to see if the VX is covered by Koni FSD's yet, it might be worthwhile; I'll do it myself if I remember:

http://www.shox.com/koni/koni-shocks/koni

Ask for Mark...

[killinformula]

Killinformula, if you like the original ride, you might want to try pumping up the OEMs before installing a set of aftermarkets. You might be able to revive them and restore your original ride quality pretty cheap. The bike shop up the road from me charges $10 to do all four. I've been surprised at how long the original shock fluid has held up - 85K miles and still damping well. If a N2 recharge doesn't do it and your OEMs are just plain worn out or they're leaking, you still don't need to pay $2000 for a set of new ones - all wear items can be replaced. They are totally rebuildable unless you have a bent or dinged-up shaft. And it doesn't cost much more than a set of aftermarket, non-reservoir shocks. Actually, if you wanted to buy the parts (sealhead, piston seals, various o-rings) and do it yourself, it would be cheaper than the Bilsteins but it would cost you in time. From what I hear, the fronts with their upside down reservoir are a PITA to bleed. I know when it comes time to rebuild mine I'm calling The Shock Doc, aka Bruce Triplett.

Life's too short to to rebuild shocks...

I am going to read up on the rebuild for the shocks, it seems like a fun project... I have been so busy at work lately that i havent had any time to work on a car, so hopefully i will have time this break to look into doing something like that... the ride of the car is stiff, it almost feels like my trans am (lowered and on 315' tires and i feel everything)... it doesnt seem to bounce on me at all, just seem like the body is one solid piece and the tires just ride over the bumps... from what i have been reading it seems like it should be that way...

how comfortable should it be for people to ride in the back? when i hit a bump, it seems like it is a rough ride back there

[SlowPro48]

It sounds like your shocks are fine then. The VehiCross with OEM suspension is a stiff riding vehicle - no getting around that. And yeah - passengers in the back take a beating. I sometimes wonder if Isuzu left out cupholders on purpose to discourage beverages in the back. Some of the bigger hits would toss a drink right out of a cupholder and into the floor.

Ganzman that's an interesting find there. Looks a lot like Edelbrock's IAS shock.

http://www.edelbrock.com/automotive_...cks_main.shtml

We've got shim stacks which are inherently speed sensitive so not sure how much of an advantage these inertia controlled gizmos would be. Looks like a nice, simple idea to vary damping though. And even though we've got speed sensitive damping, the flow is ultimately limited by port size so who knows - maybe the Konis or Edelbrocks would be a better real world compromise between comfort and handling.

Then again... we can always re-valve our shocks. Anybody got the cajones to drill bigger holes in their pistons and re-shim?

[TheGanzman]

Addendum: I heard back from Mark @ shox.com - no application for the VX yet, and he doubts they'll make 'em for us; I DO have the name of the guy at Koni though, so I'm gonna "pitch" him on making 'em. Seems like a worthwhile application, since the OEM's are a bit steep pricewise; plus they'll be more & more VX's that will be needing shock replacement(s) as time goes by. Add to the mix this very Forum of enthusiasts, and maybe they'll judge it to be a good idea...

[etlsport]

Addendum: I heard back from Mark @ shox.com - no application for the VX yet, and he doubts they'll make 'em for us; I DO have the name of the guy at Koni though, so I'm gonna "pitch" him on making 'em. Seems like a worthwhile application, since the OEM's are a bit steep pricewise; plus they'll be more & more VX's that will be needing shock replacement(s) as time goes by. Add to the mix this very Forum of enthusiasts, and maybe they'll judge it to be a good idea...

dont forget to mention they will fit troopers too!

[VehiGAZ]

how comfortable should it be for people to ride in the back? when i hit a bump, it seems like it is a rough ride back there

That is 100% normal. Make sure any back seat passengers put their seat belts on nice and tight. :-)

[VehiGAZ]

I have to disagree with you there, Vehigaz - the OEMs aren't "crappy" - they're actually very decent dampers.

I think the design is great, SlowPro. But I think they are not very well built. In the 4 years I've been on this board I have heard about waaaay too many failures to consider it a quality part. And they don't go bad from loss of nitrogen - they leak fluid and die.

[killinformula]

i looked at all my shocks, and they look good, i didnt see any leaks or oil coming out... i think i will keep them, they are quiet and good still, so no need to change!