Quote Originally Posted by WyrreJ
The very definition of faith is belief without proof.
Faith - noun A belief in the value, truth, or trustworthiness of someone or something; belief and trust in God, the Scriptures, or other religious writings; a system of religious beliefs.
Belief - noun Something that is trusted or believed.
Believe - verb To accept as true or real; to hold onto religious beliefs.
(Webster's Dictionary New Revised and Expanded Edition)
I would never ever believe or have faith in something without proof. I did not come to the conclusion that the original Hebrew and Greek words of the Bible were indeed inspired by the Creator Himself lightly. I do not have a blind faith or a faith "just because that is what my parents believed." I intentionally took religion classes at Rice University with atheist teachers because I wanted to know for sure, I wanted my faith to be challenged, I wanted to have huge questions, because if there really is a God out there that has been making Himself known to His creation in many ways He would be big enough to answer these questions, I wanted to have "A belief in the value, truth, or trustworthiness of someone or something". I wanted to have a real faith, real beliefs as they are defined. Not blind faith as you describe that is simply stupid to run around as a zombie or sponge soaking up the latest new thing. So no I do not have the faith you describe at all.

Quote Originally Posted by WyrreJ
I think you completely missed the point. The reason he knows that no one knows the "truth" is because you can not know something that is improvable. So you can have faith, you can believe, but you can not know. You might even be right in your faith, but you can't prove it so you can't know you are right.
Just because you or someone else views something as "improvable" does not mean that it is indeed the case. We all have varying degrees of approval for many things we hear about or see or experience as real, do we not?

So I see why you assume I missed the point and as I am reading back over what I said I myself see my folly there, because it is a complex issue and I did not do a good job of explaining myself I am sorry, but I do see your point.

My point is just because YOU have labeled something as "improvable for yourself" does not mean that it is indeed improvable unless you yourself can see the entire issue and proclaim it as unknowable by all mankind. But conversely it also means that by me saying that it is provable and has been proven to me does not mean or infer that it is provable to you or anyone else, but solely means that it is proven to me and I have faith and belief not blindly, but I do believe and trust as if it were true because it has been proven to me. Just because someone else labels my faith unknowable does not discount my faith to whatever they think, unless they have perfect knowledge of the subject and indeed then they themselves could declare it as unknowable or not.

My faith has been proven to me, and this was a very long hard fought battle believe me. I do not believe blindly, I choose to believe the Bible because it is a reliable collection of historical documents written down by eye witnesses during the lifetime of other eye witnesses, and they report supernatural events that took place in fulfillment of specific prophecies claiming that their writings are divine rather than human in origin. I do see how it seemed like I didn't know what you two meant I am sorry for the confusion guys. I do respect your points of view, but they just seem a little specific and exclusive to declare to every human that has ever lived that they cannot know something for sure, but they have to accept your view that you can never know for sure. I mean you are basically telling me I am wrong and your view is the only obvious one. I am not trying to say the same thing back to you, I do understand what you are trying to say, but in order to say that you would have to prove that it is not knowable or my personal preference is "I don't know what is provable/true/trustworthy in your life, but God has proven over and over again that He is the only faithful One in my life and I cannot convince you of this, but I know for sure for me." Once again guys I respect you and your views please respect mine, I am not saying that you have not, just reminding you that I write all these things innocently just trying to give my point of view not trying to persuade you or tell you that you are wring, but to just give my perspective. Your VX brother, Ryan