Originally Posted by
LittleBeast
In order to say: "No one is right. No one is wrong." logically you yourself would have to have perfect knowledge of what is right and wrong to say this with finality, and I don't think you would say that at all. It is just like saying all religions have a little bit of the truth but none knows exactly who God is, but in order to make that statement you would have to have a perfect knowledge of God to say that. Basically in other words if you say something like: "NO ONE, and I mean NO ONE knows if there is a god. NO ONE knows why we are here, or what the meaning of life is. NO ONE knows if muslims are right, or jews are right, or if christians are right, or if its OK to be gay, or if eating animals is wrong or if there are aliens in our midst or why the hell some VXes burn oil." Then you yourself would have to know the real answers to these questions perfectly in order to say that no one else's answers are correct. I don't know if you are aware of this Bart but your views are exactly in line with what has been happening in this country for the last 80 years or so. This belief system that you seem to maybe adhere to has actually been so popular that it now has its own name. Secular humanism. Basically as you stated "live in the moment, do your best to cause the least impact on the future of life on earth, and believe in NOW." If I could summarize the secular humanism view not necessarily your words or your own view (only you can do that), but this prevailing thought in America today it would simply be to say: "As a human I should get all I can (while I can), can all I get, and sit on the can, that is the highest calling for man, because after all there is no solution, no one is right and no one is wrong there is no absolute truth." I respect your views and the secular humanism views because we as a country have been so psychologically focused for the last 80 years or so, trying to find your own personal peace inside of you picking and choosing to believe or not believe anything and no one can tell me I am wrong, that this secular humanism is obviously the end of this road. I had a presentation to a class of high school students recently on this subject where I was allowed to give my point of view on this and I would like to share it with you. Remember I am not trying to tell you that you are wrong and I welcome your comments, but I would like to give my point of view. I do not expect you to agree with many of the things I discuss, but I only want to present my own beliefs on this matter. Because I think we all deal with these types of questions. In fact I think we all ask and answer 4 basic questions as humans and I will only cut and paste a section of my presentation that addresses these 4 questions. You should probably only read if you really want to see my point of view, if not no biggie it is a lot of reading I understand completely.
"I believe there are 4 basic questions that we all ask and we all answer depending on our view of the world around us. I believe these questions are so basic and common to mankind that they reach across ages and languages. These questions are common to all peoples. I believe they are part of the eternity that God placed upon our hearts (Ecc) so that we would not be content and fulfilled with anything short of a relationship with an eternal God. We must be very careful how we answer these questions because it will determine how effective we are in leading and where we are leading. Each of the two world views I mentioned earlier answers these questions differently.
Four Questions Everybody Asks
Question #1: Who Am I? What is my nature, my essence?
Question #2: Why Am I Here? What is my goal, my purpose?
Question #3: What Is Wrong with the World? Because obviously something is wrong.
Question #4: How Can What’s Wrong Be Made Right? Because living in a world where they cannot be made right is unthinkable and unlivable.
This is in the soul of every person to wrestle with these questions.
1st lets answer these questions from the perspective of our culture. What is the secular humanistic answer to these questions? Then we will look at Colossians to show us the Christian answer to these questions.
Question #1: Who Am I?
You are nothing, an accident, a mistake, a glorified ape, the result of random evolutionary processes, no rhyme, no reason, and no purpose that is all you are.
Question #2: Why Am I Here?
You are here to consume and enjoy, get all you can, can all you get, and sit on the can. How much money would be enough? A little bit more always a little bit more.
Put these two together and this is a lethal combination. Well, if we are really just a random mistake and we are here to consume and enjoy then I need to maximize my consuming and enjoying and no one better get in my way because after all they are nothing anyways. This is the same line of thought that sees an unborn baby as an inconvenient lump of flesh or worse this child will be severely deformed and will hinder your ability to consume and enjoy. Or even worse you are old and feeble, the end is near, you not only have a right to die, but a duty to die, we can give you a pill and your children will not have to take care of you anymore and they can consume and enjoy better. In this secular humanism world view, Who am I? I am nothing. Why am I here? To make the most of it, to consume and enjoy while I can.
Question #3: What Is Wrong with the World?
People are either insufficiently educated or insufficiently governed. People either don’t know enough or they are not being watched enough.
Question #4: How Can What’s Wrong Be Made Right?
More education. More government. Teach people more stuff. The only problem with this is? If you take a sinful murderous human being and educate them, they only become more sophisticated in their ability to destroy. Well then we need to govern them more. Really? Who is governing the governors?
These answers leave those who adhere to this philosophy wanting and empty and lacking.
How then do we respond?
Christian Theistic answers to these answers:
Question #1: Who Am I?
The crowning glory of the creation of God.
Colossians 1:15-17 (New American Standard Bible)
“He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation. For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities--all things have been created through Him and for Him.”
John 1:1 “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.”, Genesis 1:26 “Let us make man in our image and our likeness.”
Question #2: Why Am I Here?
To bring glory and honor to the Lord Jesus Christ.
Colossians 1:16-18 (New American Standard Bible)
“all things have been created through Him and for Him. He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together. He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything.”
Question #3: What Is Wrong with the World?
Me and everyone like me, who refuse to acknowledge the supremacy of Jesus Christ and live in the pursuit of self.
Colossians 1:19-21 (New American Standard Bible)
“For it was the Father's good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him, and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven. And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds,”
Question #4: How Can What’s Wrong Be Made Right?
Through the penal, substitutionary, atoning death of the Son of God, and through repentance and faith on the part of sinners.
Colossians 1:22-23 (New American Standard Bible)
“yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach-- if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a minister.”
Our culture (secular humanism) leaves people empty and hopeless, man is left worthless, left to pursue our own satisfaction and never find it.
With Christ (Christian theism) we are seen as precious, we have a purpose, we are powerless but it is ok because we were purchased.
What is the difference in how we are to lead as Christians and how believers in other religions are leading. Well, it helps to remember that basically in every other religion in the world you need to have a religious experience, and after that you need to do everything in your power to do more good than bad. That experience and how the good and bad are done may be a little different across religions, but this is basically every religion outside of Christianity.
There are 3 problems with this:
-We can’t be good, we can try but we can’t do it, we are totally radically depraved, even when we do things that look to be good they are for the wrong motives.
-What about all the things we did before this religious experience?
-Where is the assurance?
What is more important how you start something or how you finish it? In the decathlon what is more important my standing after the first event or the last event? In a race what is most important your position at the beginning of the race or at the end? In high school what is most important your class rank your freshman year or your senior year? In a football game what is most important the score after the 1st quarter or the score at the end of the game? In our Christian Walk what is more important when and how it started or how we continued until the end? In our Christian Walk what is more important when and how we started following in such a way to deserve followers or if we continue to do so until the very end? If we live our Christian lives pointing back to a time that we prayed a prayer or a time when we felt close to God, yet do not currently experience a walk with Him today, where are we leading? What are we following today if all our hope is in an event in the past? A great leader continues to follow Christ all the way to the end.
Hebrews 4:13
“We have come to share in Christ if we hold firmly till the end the confidence we had at first.”
Colossians 1:22-23
“yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach-- if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard”
I am sorry this is so long, and thanks to any who actually read this. I respect all of your points of view and all of your amazing senses of humor, I hope that this made you think in some way and I really do care about all of you and I hope and pray that you all find happiness and hope in some belief, because we all have beliefs and trust in something or someone whether we know it or not.
Your VX brother,
Ryan H
USA Decathlon Team
Super VXer
.....
Bart
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