Am I the biggest fool ever ???

[Ldub]

Who, and what comes and goes from your body, is you're business. Never do something you don't want to.....particularly for money. Your life is an eyeblink long, don't waste an instant of it. (Besides,ya don't sell your soul for 40k...our detailer made 37 last year find your own path...the Gods gave everyone a talent, exploit it.) And good for you! wayne

My sentiments exactly...bending to the mans will would make my existence seem so whore like that I wouldn't be able to look myself square in the eye whilst brushing my teeth in the morning.

[Cobrajet]

I was in your shoes several years ago. After being out of work for five months I was getting desperate. I took a job in DC that entailed nearly two hours commute (each way) on the train. I was hired to write computer code, but quickly discovered that this company hed very strict rules concerning formatting and version control. Not my style. After one week I turned in my badge. A couple weeks later I was offered the job I have now. I love the laid-back environment in my group, even though it is a HUGE company (we spit in the eye of the IT group!). I'm making more then the first job, and even though my commute is still over an hour each way, I have the option to work from home when I want.

Regardless, I still check the local listing for jobs in my town. I'd consider a pay cut to work closer, as long as the job is right. I've paid my dues, worked for "the man", and want a job I want to go to.

I did 20 years in the Navy, so drug testing is no biggie to me. I even conducted a few in my day.

[MrCrowley]

I can really appreciate this situation!

I have been living in FL for 8 months now, and just turned down the first full time job offered in the whole state to me. I didnt want to make 9.75 an hour babysitting college kids at stetson university ( after they thought I was the best applicant since sliced bread! lol). Ironically, I had been applying for other jobs there the whole time, but never got a call! After running a cost model, my wife and I cannot afford the >50% pay cut, 50% higher car insurance, .40 cent per gallon higher gas, 400% higher housing cost, etc. of living anywhere in florida. My parents suckered me down here from Alabama, where I was alredy being screwed by government contractors, and now I will probably move to NE Georgia. I just got back from a short term gig in Athens, GA that paid $24.00 (wohoo!) an hour. Do the math.

It leaves me completely speechless that decreasing education standards make degrees meaningless (since they are required to do menial jobs- it dumbs down the whole degree attainment principles), the "easiest" majors have the most lucrative pay, benefits in general are completely drying up ( I personally havent had health insurance in 6 years- much less anything else), Costs are skyrocketing- yet pay is staying level, the baby boomers have absolutely no clue on how to run a nation- nor can they present a single leader with the slightest credibility with the exception of Colin Powell (I hate both sides, but respect credibility) and even he has had enough of the bull, The younger generations ARE ABSOLUTELY CLUELESS- I wont even go there, the entire "democratic" system is being divided like the caste system of old- think nobles and peasants, has anyone else noticed the rise in nepotism recently due to the less competetive job market?

I have recently had interesting talks with the wife about things like: upper hospital management where she works getting better insurance plans and benefits, explaining why I did like the first poster here and left great jobs and/or companies, pay etc. because they were either treating people undemocratically, substandard, class divided, were no bid Iraq contract holders, nepotists, substandard pay, lucrative defense contract abusers, etc. She is now starting to see the big picture. Ahhhhh grasshopper. You are starting to use your mind! Lol.

Looks like I'm heading back to a remote hilltop paradise, working just for the pay, and enjoying every minute of the miniscule free time that I will be allocated. Any other ideas folks?

Good Luck original poster- you have my respect!!!!!



<- ME
<- WIFE
<- Pets

[nfpgasmask]

Yeah, things are really screwed up right now. I've been making the same amount of money for 6 years, prices are going up up up with everything from food, to gas to home prices. Things are just sooooo off balance it seems.

I look at houses with the wife on the weekends here in Reno, and we are both like, "who the h3ll lives here in Reno who can afford these prices? And what the h3ll are they doing for a living?"

Am I missing something? WTF is all I can say about the state of economics in our country right now.

Bart

[Heraclid]

Well, I can't believe no one else seems to feel this way..

I don't have a problem in the world with drug tests. If you're clean, you've got nothing to worry about. If you're not, you shouldn't get hired.

I don't care how much of a two-faced jerk the guy may be, bottom line is it's HIS company, and he can do what he pleases with it. Would you step down over it if it were your company? Based on the fact that you think your termination was unjust, I think not. Obviously you think THEY should have gotten punished more for it, but you don't think YOU should have. That's a double standard too, now isn't it?

You don't have a right to be employed in accordance with your own rules. The job belongs to the company, it is the company's to give, and they have a right to set some standards and are fully reasonable in expecting you to meet them. If you don't like that, then you are quite free to work elsewhere.

Speaking of working somewhere else, you'll find that very few employers would ever entertain meeting you halfway on this one. This thing will probably follow you around and make it a lot harder to get a good job in the future. Any decent employer with a worthwhile job to fill will likely check you out good enough to find out about this. If you can find someone who doesn't, I can pretty much guarantee that place and that job will suck. So was it really worth it?

I realize everyone makes mistakes. But DUI is just one of those things that there should be no tolerance for whatsoever. I don't care what anybody does to themselves when it doesn't hurt anyone else, but you cross the line when you are out on the road endangering innocent lives. You get absolutely no sympathy from me.

And if you think this is too harsh, just be thankful you're not talking to my wife. Her mother was killed by a drunk driver. Compared to what she'd have to say to you, I'm being an absolute sweetheart.

[LeglizHemp]

========~~~

[Ldub]

Heraclid,

I can see the pain of losing someone close in your reply & I'm truly sorry for your loss, however, it wasn't me who caused your loss or anyone elses.
I have repaid my debt to society & am a better man for it...For this I am fortunate & thankful.
It's obvious you haven't made any mistakes that bear the burden of legal consequence, for that I commend you.
Had you read this thread more closely, you would realize I already have a job that I enjoy going to, working with an employer who I consider a friend. I work with he & his sons, more than for them.
While drug testing is something I disagree with in principle & practice, it wasn't the entire issue.
Working for a company that has one set of standards for some who are producing top shelf work in a timely manner, & another set for those who are out golfing with the owner...well, lets just say it always made me feel all creepy inside & I don't care to fit in to that reality.
My decision was based not solely on policies I find demoralizing in general, but also on being true to myself & to an employer I also consider a friend
In closing, I would like to wish you well & say no hard feelings, I appreciate your side of the argument.
Also, kudos on a very stern lecture & I'm quite sure your wife could deliver one that's even better...but I don't think I could take another.
To the rest of you...sorry for the "manifesto".

[ZEUS]

I realize everyone makes mistakes. But DUI is just one of those things that there should be no tolerance for whatsoever. I don't care what anybody does to themselves when it doesn't hurt anyone else, but you cross the line when you are out on the road endangering innocent lives. You get absolutely no sympathy from me.

And if you think this is too harsh, just be thankful you're not talking to my wife. Her mother was killed by a drunk driver. Compared to what she'd have to say to you, I'm being an absolute sweetheart.

I admit I have done some very very stupid things while drunk. Things I am not proud of, including driving... very very reckless driving! I could say I was young and stupid; and, well, drunk, but I know (now) there is no excuse for endangering people's lives. I am lucky and thankful I never did harm anyone. However, the police have figured out how much money they can get by pulling over people who aren't neccesarily drunk; but have had a drink or two. So they have lowered the legal drinking limit to gain more money while saying they have done it for our safety. BS In that sense, I really don't think a DUI is a DUI is a DUI. That is MY perception of what they have done and it pisses me off.

There are people going on long distance road trips without pulling over for a break... people talking on the cell phone while driving, tough guys with bad vision too vain to wear glasses, people lighting cigarettes, messing with their ultra-hip car stereos, eating, and what have you (insert background porno music here), that are more dangerous than a person who has had two Utah beers or even two Colorado beers. And say you are responsible enough to have had just one drink and then get pulled over for some other reason, the cop gets all high and mighty and feels justified in telling you they can't get a reading on their breathilizer, "so we are going to have to take you to the station for a urine analysis or blood test. We will have your car towed and impounded while you are in detox." Maybe you are clean, maybe you are not, but if you stand up for your rights, the cop will just say "the subject did not cooperate", and at your "DUI trial" you will be fined for standing up for your rights! So in my must-be-flawed-logic, I say, "Stick it to the man in every way you can because that is what he is doing to you!"

And BTW, I had a sober friend pick me up at a bar in which I was talking to drunk cops I had never met before. They drove themselves from the bar, one was pulled over while drunk, he flashed his badge, and was allowed to continue home and do it again whenever he wanted to. That cop told me things like that point blank with a smile on his face - like driving drunk was an installed company benefit!

Ldub repaid his debt as he said - and it even affected his employment situation. Yet the other people with DUI's employed there were treated differently... "like driving drunk was an installed company benefit!" Don't you see Ldub was standing up to someone who was "playing favorites" in the same fashion as the police mentioned! Do you think it is OK to allow someone to operate "HIS OWN BUSINESS" in that way as well?

Please drink responsibly.

[WyrreJ]

I don't have a problem in the world with drug tests. If you're clean, you've got nothing to worry about. If you're not, you shouldn't get hired.

Try eating a poppy-seed bagel or taking pseudophed for that sinus headache the morning of your next drug test and see how quickly your attitude changes about having nothing to worry about.

While we are at it, lets check for STDs, if you are clean you've got nothing to worry about, but if you've picked up something it must mean you are an adulterer and shouldn't be allowed in the workplace, you'll probably harass someone.

Let's also check for anti-depressents, because if you are taking some of those then you must be a time-bomb waiting to go off. Can't have anyone going postal at the office.

Let's also do a background check and see if you have any speeding tickets, because too many speeding tickets means a lack of respect for authority and that's not a safe attitude for someone in the workplace.

If your knowledge and experience make you a critical asset to the company, we can't have you do anything like off-roading during the weekend, that would be too dangerous. The risk to your health, and thus the risk to the company is unacceptable.

It comes down to basic principles of respect for the individual. Do you want your employer to tell you how to live your life outside of work? You think my examples are over the top? Some of them have become common place already. The only difference between you and I is where we draw the line, and if people keep dismissing the importance of the issue, society will keep drawing the line further and further into our private lives.

[tomdietrying]

Everyone deserves a second chance. Just, look at G.W. Bush. In his younger days, he got a DUI. Think about it. Where we would be if he didn't get a second chance.

Uhhhhh sorry.............wrong example. You know what I mean.

Peace.
Tom