Isuzu Lawsuit...

[WILLY]

The bending problem probably stems from wore out sticky rubber that was not lubed with silicon spray and with continued use and binding the end result is pooped out mechanical stuff.when i bought my vx the windows barely worked and they did the tilting foward thing and i sprayed them with the sily spray and have done so since and had absolutely zero problems.

[johnnyapollo]

When Joe Black and I had the door panel off my Proton (to try out the permanent window fix prototype), it was pretty obvious that the bracket that holds the window to the vertical glide lost contact as the window pushed upward - the temporary fix is to "tighten" the bracket by placing a stack of washers under the bolts that attach the glide to the door, pushing it out. The additional tension prevents the bracket from losing contact so the widow goes upward as designed.

Joe's permanent fix is a replacement bracket that has extended/reinforced "fingers" on either side of the glide, so it doesn't have the opportunity to flex out as the window travels upward. The design flaw is in the curvature of the vertical glide - it bows out in the middle due to the shape of the door - instead of designing new brackets, Isuzu reused off-the-shelf components, so with time they wear out. The new bracket should fix the issue with most having window problems. It won't fix windows that have progressed further (once the rubber has split or the side-glides are mangled, or the regulator is shot, additional work will need to be done).

-- John

[cyronman]

Joe's permanent fix is a replacement bracket that has extended/reinforced "fingers" on either side of the glide, so it doesn't have the opportunity to flex out as the window travels upward. The design flaw is in the curvature of the vertical glide - it bows out in the middle due to the shape of the door - instead of designing new brackets, Isuzu reused off-the-shelf components, so with time they wear out. The new bracket should fix the issue with most having window problems. It won't fix windows that have progressed further (once the rubber has split or the side-glides are mangled, or the regulator is shot, additional work will need to be done).

-- John

Sounds like a must-have.
Are these (going to be) available for others?

[Joe_Black]

Sounds like a must-have.
Are these (going to be) available for others?

You bet, as soon as I can get 'em finished!

For those seriously considering the class-action or lawsuit angle, just remember that the VehiCROSS is a limited production, hand-built vehicle. I'd bet good money there's a lot of "it ain't gonna be perfect" exclusionary statements that would stop such an endeavor dead in its well-meaning tracks.

The window issue is simply something that wasn't foreseen and likely never encountered in testing, and the only manufacturer solution would be a different guide rail and window carrier. Ultimately, I'd like to look at an Amigo window regulator assembly to see how close it is proportionately to the VX unit. Something like that would be a rather intimidating fix for most though, even if pre-packaged as a mod kit.

[alanbradley]

This may be my silly European mind but just what would a class-action lawsuit achieve? Its a sure way to stop a company considering importing any other interesting, low volume vehicles that you may want to buy.

Supposedly MkII MR-2s have the same issue btw...

A

[johnnyapollo]

Class action lawsuits are effective in "slapping the wrists" of corporate giants who have obviously affected the health and well being of hundreds of thousands of consumers. The problems with most attempts are: 1. Generally, the attorneys aren't interested in handling a class action suit unless there is huge material gain for themselves (usually in excess of 1 million in fees); 2. Enough consumers are affected that there is easy proof to tort (hundreds if not thousands of testimonials by experts evaluating the situation); 3. The case can be brought before a judge in a timely manner (the longer it stretches out the higher the fees - it can aid or detract from #1 above); 4. Real harm to consumers - almost all cases involve some type of harm to those that purchased. There are many other factors but these 4 cover the basics.

I hear "let's get a class action suit" all the time, and in almost every case it doesn't make sense to do so. People don't understand what the suit really is - you hear about class-action suits against tobacco companies, occasionally auto manufacturers when it's proven that a design flaw has killed many consumers (like a failed safety part), when people actually get hurt as a result of the flaw. With the VX, there are less than 5000 made - it's just not enough to warrant a class-action suit for the problem (what attorney would spend possibly years litigating something like that?).

Something else to think about - have you ever seen the reward for class action suits? Most recipients of a judgement get a check for a tiny amount, like a dollar or a few pennies. The only people that actually benefit are the attorneys who handle the suit. Just my 2 cents.

-- John

[Choonks]

Very well written, Johnny - informative, precise and comprehendible! Wow, I think I'll go back and read that again!

Thanks for the explanation!

Ursula

[MZ-N10]

The bending problem probably stems from wore out sticky rubber that was not lubed with silicon spray and with continued use and binding the end result is pooped out mechanical stuff.when i bought my vx the windows barely worked and they did the tilting foward thing and i sprayed them with the sily spray and have done so since and had absolutely zero problems.

there are numberous threads on here stating that lubing is only a bandaid solution. i for one tried lubing the windows trying to fix the problem, at no avial. once i removed the door panels, it was apparent that my windows tend to shift outwards when closing, causing a gap between the rubber and forcing the window to move outwards, binding the window. by bending the rails i was able to put more pressure on the plastic U mounts which held the window in place.

[rowhard]

J. Apollo, well written, thank you. So, what we need is a attorney(s) that own's a VX's in the group that have made their money and would enjoy taking Isuzu on, I'd carry their briefcase.

[PHO2GR4]

Okay, Joe Black, please consider me first in line for your window fix!

See the guy waving the handful of dollar bills? That's me!

[Thejerseyfish]

Makes sense what was said about the class action being no good in this case. Not enough of a menace to not enough people to warrant it. I have however though heard of people going after the auto maker individualy, and a lot times winning. With the snow storm I haven't had a good chance to talk to my friends that are lawyers yet, hopefully be able to get to that by the end of the week.
This brings me to my problem still. I still have a blown regualtor with no idea what the part number is or even where to go about getting one. Anyone know this info? Also what is the price on a part like that, I heard that they are expensive.
Hopefully if the weather clears in the next day or two here I'll try lubing the pass window which is the only one still working and see how that goes. As for the driver, its still up and down by hand till I get the part.

Lastly, what is the official concensus here on the best long term fix, I've many, shim this, bend that, but what is the easy and longest lasting way to fix it so it doesn't come up again?

Thanks for the great input by everyone by the way. If I didn't love my girl I wouldn't be here, and know that goes for the rest of you.

[Bulldoggie]

Lastly, what is the official concensus here on the best long term fix, I've many, shim this, bend that, but what is the easy and longest lasting way to fix it so it doesn't come up again?

Thanks for the great input by everyone by the way. If I didn't love my girl I wouldn't be here, and know that goes for the rest of you.

Well, I'll throw out my 2 cents again.

My shimmed window lift still works like a charm.

All the 3m silicone spray in the world, will not put the lifting arm back under the glass. Although it does help keep the rubber from sticking.

My repair cost less than $10.

If your window pushes outward from the door, it needs to be shimmed before the window tabs break!!!! And they will not take the stress.

If your window tilts down in front, the Window needs to be positioned more to the REAR. That is why someone said you can just push the window rearward as it goes up or down. Just remember to pull your fingers out before they get pinched.

How you go about moving the glass rearward could be done many ways.
I chose to slot the 4 holes that hold the lift arm assembly.

Anyone who wants to stop by and see how well my windows work, feel invited.
I'll even pull the panel so you can see for yourself why I made the adjustments that I did, and how simple it is to do.

If you would like me to help walk you through it, just schedule a time to meet.

I myself would not have tried until I read every post I could find about the window problem, and doing so gave me the clues of where to look. That is what makes forums like this so wonderful.

Lastly, Does anyone have a window that tilts down in the back, or one that pushes itself inside the car???? NO???? Well this should cover the window problem for All that still have a working motor. Only saying that these two adjustments will fix ALL the window problems that I have read about.

Is it permement? I have had no promblems or readjustment since.

Is this the "official concensus", NO. But that is why they are called forums.

My widow had a broken rear tab and the front tab had it's brass theads pulled out. I fixed the front one by pushing the brass piece back in and using a longer bolt so a nylock nut could be added on the other side. The rear one I glued together with an Epoxy and encasing the tab with enough Epoxy to hold the tab together on all sides. If this tab breaks in the future, I will replace it with the GM window tab.

[IndianaVX]

I am in agreement with bulldoggie, i have fixed my windows with the fixes found here on the forum.....the drilling out, the washers,the bending track and mount, and the silicone. windows work like a charm, like they should. BUT after the start of this cold snap, my driverside started messing up, so i took the panel off to see what was up, and the "glue" that holds the windows to the tabs had failed. DONT PANIC!!! i just razor bladed the factory glue off the window, (it all stuck to the window, and not the tabs) and epoxied the window back to the tabs, now im back to perfectly working windows.
i still have the split rubber that i need to replace at some point, but my windows work very well, and no water comes in, so hey, im happy.
I too invite, or welcome anyone to get ahold of me, and i will help fix, or walk thru the process to get yours working again also. always glad to help.
david