Printable View
hey all.. i got pulled over last night.. the officer claims he clocked me at 94 (no way i was going that fast!!) after he drove off i looked down and noticed my scan gauge and thought hmmm so i checked the trip computer on it and my max speed listed there was only 86! is there any way i can use this to show that the radar detector he used was wrong, or that he just plain made it up.. its only going to hold the data for another day unless theres some way to store it?
.. and please nobody tell me i was going too fast either way.. i know i was, it was the end of an 8 hour drive.. i was getting antsy and lacked some judgement
Going too fast? Gods man, you call THAT fast? :p
It's very doubtful that will be of any help in court. Go to court, plea guilty with explanation, and try to at least get the fine and points lowered a bit.
Just feel lucky, cause if you were to get pulled over for that speed in MD on a state highway.... you are going for a ride with bracelets on. They are REALLY cracking down hard on that here now. I found that out 2 years ago. I since learned to drive like an old man.
Good luck.
yikes, i didnt know maryland was getting that serious about their speeding tickets, after this i doubt that ill be speeding much.. for some reason this has gotten me really shaken up... but its good to know to use extra caution in MD as i drive to frederick all the time to see friends/fam... on a similar note a friend of mine was pulled over in DE doing 20 over, judge told him that if he got caught doing ANYTHING wrong in deleware again (including jaywalking) he would have to serve mandatory jail time... you would think they would be cracking down on people running red lights, driving drunk.. cars without brake lights (i see 2-3 a week with NO brake lights).. not speeders
There is a thread on one of the VW forums where a very similar question was asked. In this case, the scan device didn't record the actual speed, but it can be calculated based on RPMs. Depending on the state, sometimes defending yourself and presenting evidence, if done correctly, will get you out of a ticket. I know because I've done it in Maryland. However, from my experience, the best thing to do is go to court and hope the cop doesn't show. If he does, like WormGod said, plead guilty with an explanation. Tell them about how you have a bladder control problem and really had to do #1 so you were rushing to make it home. Or whatever. It really doesn't matter what the excuse is because as long as you are courteous and respectful, dress appropriately, and present yourself in a positive manner (and don't have warrants or a record a mile long, of course) you will almost always get your fine and points reduced.
If you are positive that you weren't going 94 or darn close to it, and that the cop's estimate was way off, you might have a chance at going to trial. But if your scan device doesn't save the trip log with time stamps and everything, I think you'll have a tough time getting your evidence accepted and at that point if you're found guilty you'll pay the full fine and get all the points. I've heard of people asking for laser calibration records and such, but I don't personally know of anyone who has actually used that tactic.
Regardless of the outcome in court, unless the charges are dropped, your insurance record will reflect the new ticket and your rates could go up (it all depends on the insurance company).
There is a lot of interesting advice in that thread. I'm not sure if you'll need to register to read it: VW thread
Oh yeah, and Maryland has changed quite a bit since I left there about 4 years ago. 86 used to be just barely keeping up with traffic!
Dont you know anyone that knows someone? Hehe that is by far the most effective method. If not, I would suggest at least going to court, that way you always have the possibility of convincing the judge to something lesser or if the officer doesnt show up, then your innocent anyway. I dont have a scan guage, but if the scanguage has a time/day stamp maybe video the information? I realize its goig to be all hearsay, but cant hurt to have.
Added---Also ask when the gun was last calibrated, and suggest it be retested because your vehicle info shows it being incorrect. (I am assuming you have stock tires, etc.) 90% of success in a courtroom (without a lawyer) I believe is attitude, or lack there of. If you are professional & courtesous you'll get alot farther than if you go in swearing his gun screwed up. Also mention your clean driving record if you have one. G/L
Um, suck it up and pay the ticket??? Dont know that 8 MPH is going to make THAT much difference.
Go in early talk to the DA and plea it down. Some areas allow you to pay early and get points reduction, etc. If not, and that isnt too appealing take your chances and talk to the DA and pray for lienency.
Good luck.
nope, no time/date, i was thinking i could take a photo of it w/ timestamp because it does have a 'previous day" display on it, it doesnt sound like itll be much use since i didnt just show it to the officer at the time, looks like ill just be going to court and hoping to get by on my boyish good looks/charm haha :cool:
the idea was that if i could show the radar gun to not be accurate i can just claim he has no way to prove how fast i was going, since the scan gauge doesnt say WHEN i went 86.. just that the fastest i was going was 86
Google is your friend - there are a lot of resources on the net about how to best combat a ticket - all kinds of interesting information including information regarding illegal speed limits (in some states if the speed limit for that part of the road was not formally evaluated by the DoT then posting signage may actually have the effect of making the speed limit completely unregulated).
The sites may not directly address the usage of a scan guage, but it can probably be used as supporting evidence for inaccuracy of measurement, depending on the other conditions.
One thing to note - "settling" for a reduced fine is usually bull****. The cost of a ticket is rarely in the fine - it is in the long term effects on your insurance rates - which can easily cost you thousands over the course of a couple of years. In *most* cases you would be better off paying a higher fine up front in exchange for keeping the affair off your driving records.
Even if your speed was dangerously in excess you should do everything you can to fight the ticket - far too many speed limits are all about revenue and actually decrease safety because they are set too low. So no matter how "guilty" you might feel, consider all the poor slobs who got screwed over by illegitimate speed limit enforcement and consider it your duty to try to balance things out. Speed limits shouldn't be a game, but its the politicians who have made it that way so you should feel no compunctions about playing hardball.
how can you keep it off my driving record by paying a higher fine?Quote:
Originally Posted by WyrreJ
My two cents...
First thing to do is to research the county/state to see what you need to get a reduced fine and/or infraction. Some courts bend over for you if you bring a lawyer, others will make you a reduced-fine deal just for showing up and not looking like a gangster (e.g., MO and CT, respectively). Go to court (with the lawyer, if necessary) and be prepared to pay fines in excess of the ticket for a reduced, non-moving violation. As suggested, you will save thousands in the end paying $250 for an illegal parking infraction rather than $100 for a speeding ticket plus an extra $1000 a year in insurance for the next 5 years.
Your scan gage data will most likely not be of any use as evidence, since it is not recognized by the court as a legitimate speed-data-collection instrument, although it is worth noting to the prosecutor that you have this additional instrumentation and a working speedometer, and they both showed your speed as "at least 10 mph lower" than what the cop wrote up. It'll open the door just enough for him to think the case against you may be a little bogus.
Incidentally, some states (notably CT - not sure which others) will sometimes offer a "charitable contribution" option if your speed was not excessive and you have a decent driving record. This is the Holy Grail of getting-out-of-a-ticket as far as I'm concerned: You get a ticket that would run you $150. The prosecutor offers you a reduced fine of $75, but it's still a speeding infraction (i.e., moving violation - with points). You let him know that it's not so much the fine you want to reduce as the infraction, then he offers to let you make a charitable contribution in the amount of $150 in exchange for reducing the charge to illegal parking (i.e., non-moving, AND NO POINTS). You say, "DEAL! Thank you very much!!" The bailiff right outsidde the court room collects for United Way, you write him a check, get off the moving violation, then write the $150 off as a deduction on your taxes! Talk about win-win!!
Full disclosure: this advice is from someone who has gotten well over 40 (and maybe over 50 at this point) speeding tix in his 21-year driving career, and still pays normal insurance rates.
I didn't say you could - but when people "plea-bargain" speeding tickets they always seem to go for a reduced fine which is peanuts. If the prosecutor and/or judge is willing to bargain, you might as well go in asking for something that is worth real $$ in your pocket, not penny-ante crap.Quote:
Originally Posted by etlsport
I would make the argument that it does not serve the state's interest for the insurance companies to milk you when some portion of that money could go into the state's coffers instead. Of course that argument also implies that the whole system is corrupt including the court's role in it all and if you get a smart judge in a bad mood, he might realize you are making that implication and decide to make you pay for speaking the truth.
i appreciate all of the advice, has anyone else gotten caught going this fast before? (94/55) and what happened? i tend to be kind of a worrier, and i am losing A LOT of sleep over this so just knowing what to expect will hopefully help some... right now im half expecting officers to bang on my door tonight and lock me up or something (not really...but close enough).... e-mail me if you would rather not let everyone else know about your tickets. thanks
-eric
i got caught doing 96 on a 65 zone goin to school. the officer was nice and let me off cause i told him i was late for a final.
i would write a "trail by written decleration" (sp). not sure if u have it in ur state but in CA, u can always just contest to it by letter. IF u lose u can always request a new trial (trial de novo) and show up to court, this gives u 2 chances of winning. and if worst comes to worst, u can beg for traffic school.
I think 39 MPH OVER the speed limit is going to be frowned upon in just about any jurisdiction, so any doubt that you can cast on the accuracy of the measurement will help you. In some states, anything over 20 above is considered reckless driving (e.g. WV).
In my non-expert opinion (most of my experience has been in Maryland... about 12-13 tickets in 17 years of driving) you don't have a strong enough case to take it to trial without a lawyer. If you're pretty articulate and don't intimidate easily you probably have a 50/50 chance, depending on the mood of the prosecutor, judge and jury (if applicable), but you've got to decide whether it's worth the risk of paying the full fine and points should you be found guilty. If it were me, and I was convinced that I was without a doubt doing less than 90, I would most certainly take it to trial. But that's me, and I've been to court enough to know how to present myself and what to expect.
If you don't have a lot of personal experience in the courtroom, you're probably better off hoping for a break or a plea bargain. Go to court; look for the cop; if he's not there, plead innocent and be on your way (there's your break). Otherwise, plead guilty and ask for a reduced charge.
One thing you should be clear on is whether your insurance company uses points to determine your rates. MINE (USAA) DOES NOT. Mine uses your conviction against its own point system, so regardless of whether your DRIVING RECORD has 0 points or 10 points, your rates do not change. Driving record points only come into play when they decide whether to suspend or revoke your driver's license. My insurance rates fluctuate based on number and type of convictions and accidents during a 3 year window. So in my case, I'm more concerned with the conviction (i.e. 0-9 over, 10-19 over, etc.).
You'd probably need to go to a speedo shop and get a certified test done - I've done that several times in the past. As for the ScanGauge accuracy, you must go into setup and specify the parameters such as engine size and most importantly tire size (via percentage from stock) - if you have gone from stock tires to say 31" tall, error is about a +9% difference that you can enter.
I was caught going 109MPH on New Year's day a few year's back and other than the 2 State Troopers approaching the VX with the gun's drawn, it was just a $250 ticket. Glad they only clocked me @ 109....
I don't know if it works in MD, but in WA, I think if you agree to a defense driving class or something, you can have the ticket reduced. Of course, it needs to be your first ticket. I didn't read all of the threads, maybe someone has also mentioned that.
Sorry, I meant PA, not MD. Guess I got excited too about MD and how they deal with it.
Were you stopped by local or state law inforcement? How did they clock your speed? What kind of road were you driving on when it happened? What time of day?
The answers to these questions will determine your course of action.
Howard
i was on I95, not sure when he clocked me but he pulled me over on the exit ramp, local cop i think, used a radar gun around noon
Where you pulled over in Philly? If so take it to court. There is a good chance the officer will not show. (They dismiss the charges). Ask to see when the unit was last calibrated. Ask to see when the officer was rated to use the radar unit. Did he have proper training? If he had no training???? Were you on the highway alone? Were there other cars around you? Did he pull over the right car? Many questions to be answered!
Check website "Radar Roy".
Howard
i was just outside of philly, i got to stare at the airport while he processed everything, and walked about 3 laps around the VX gawking. the radar detector was last calibrated may 14, 2006, and he was using it himself (ive heard of people getting out of tickets because the ticketing officer didnt actually use the radar, the partner did, but didnt come to court, and hearsay works with police too) im definately going to court and hoping that the cop doesnt show, there were a few people around even if he got the wrong car, i was still passing the other cars, so he could use the radar as a point of refrence then, at this point ive accepted the fact that im screwed unless he doenst show up and am just trying to figure out how to not get my licence suspended/keep my insurance low enough that i can still afford the vx
I think if your DL would/could have been suspended it would have to have happened already. You made an error, you were penalized by the state/city for that, there is a set fine. (again my opinion only) I really dont think they can change the penalty to be more severe just because you decide to bring it to court. The officer who wrote you the ticket made a decision he thought fit the infraction, which he is trained to do, so I cant see anyone who wasnt there that night over ruling his professional opinion including the judge, unless you have some type of 3 strikes and your out laws.
Although there are no real reasons to be going that fast over the speed limit, it would be beneficial to have a reason when you get to court, it does help a little with the sympathy. Rather than the "umm, because I didnt see a cop" excuse.
yeah i told the cop at the time that i was at the end of a 7 hour trip (which is true) and was just so in the zone driving i didnt see my exit, so when i realized i was a half mile away from it i had to speed up to get around some traffic so i could make my exit... and i thought i was in a 65 because the rest of the highway was 65
i appreciate everyones imput here, its makin me be able to relax about the whole thing a lot more
Whoa boy, lots of stuff, but not going to bother quoting it.
RE: plea bargaining, I wasnt referring to simply a lower cost fine. Moreso, a points reduction, for example from 6 to 2. Or BETTER yet... moving to a non-moving violation, that has happened on more than one occasion for me.
I used to get popped all the time, then I grew up and stopped driving quite so fast, because you gotta pay to play, and it became prohibitively expensive.
I once was popped for 120 in a 65, mandatory court appearance. This was in CO, we lived in WY at the time, and were nearly late to court (physics final), showed up and the LEO did not. It was dismissed immediately. Fortunate for us, as we had ~$1200 in violations. I was driving, buddies car, so we both had to be there (at least it made sense to us at the time). Senior year.
Another time, I was cruisin 100 in a 65 (again I-25 near Ft Collins), LEO was decent and lowered it to 84 in a 65. Took a chance and went to court. Again, she didnt show up and case was dismissed.
Ones that I just got popped and paid were:
97/45 ($300+)
103/55 ($500 + 2 weeks community service)
107/65 ($500+ + month community service)
Cleaning the shoulders/medians is NOT fun, especially with the county inmates.
My ins rates were not good from 16-24 as the last ticket I got was when I was 21 and the 3 years for it to drop off the record.
In WY, 4 tix in a year and you loose your license. It worked out that I always had 3, ten when it dropped down to two(after a year), I would get the third again.
I finally sensed up and decided it wasnt worth it and stayed clean for 12 years. I did get popped this year for 51/40 (amazing sunrise on the way to work and not paying attention to the speed, alone one on the road).
I did contact the DA and got leniency for my clean record and moved from the 4 pointer to a non-moving violation, with a fine (revenue generation).
Ive been there, I live to drive fast, but learned that it is best saved for the track. Cruise control is your friend. :p
Talk to the DA and see what you can work out.
Good luck