3.5 Engine Fix?

Greetings,
My first post here - great forum. My question concerns the 3.5 engine failures.

I read somewhere that Isuzu had corrected problems in the 3.5's that were manufactured after the 99' -01' model years. I then read elsewhere that this is not true. Does anyone here have a definative answer to this?

From some of the posts I've read here, a few are unwilling to admit there is a problem, but there are just too many documented reports and complaints to deny it. Even the service people at most Isuzu dealerships will acknowledge it.

The thing is, I like these vehicles. I'm seeing nice used ones for 10 to 12 grand (almost bought one recently, but an unexpected financial setback got in the way). Investing another 8 or 9 grand for a new engine still keeps you at or around $20,000, which isn't too much for a car these days. Assuming the drivetrain will hold up, I would have no problem with that.

My concern is, if I invest 20 grand in one of these, is newer engine going to be just as vulnerable to failure as the earlier ones?

Thanks!

Isuzu engines are world famous for their reliability.
I have a Lotus Elan with an Isuzu engine which can be thrashed to the bone and never misses a beat.
It is because it has an Isuzu engine that made me go for a VX.
Bad news about engines and such are more told about than engines that never go wrong.
Even the best engines of the most respected builders tend to break down ocasionally.
If you recondition the engine acording to the latest specs. I'm sure you will find that the VX will deliver.

^^^^ What he said ^^^^

The 6VE1 as used in the VehiCROSS has also been used in the Trooper, Rodeo and a number of other vehicles produced worldwide. The total production numbers of this engine are simply staggering, so the possibility for defects slipping through quality control even at small levels means that there will still be some "lemon" engines out there. The engines used for the VX weren't special and came from the normal supply line as needed by production. The horror-stories you've come across are shared here in the US by Trooper and Rodeo owners as well.

Actually, come to think of it, after three-plus years on this forum there's been like around 5 or so people with engine failure. Of the registered members that's about 1%. And if I recall correctly some of those failures were on VX's purchased second hand, some with questionable maintenance histories.

So, if you're reluctant to buy a VX due to the potential for known engine failure then based on that logic you'd never buy a vehicle from any manufacturer. Think about this: Isuzu has never had a recall on any vehicle in the US that they actually build. Thanks to their unholy alliance with GM they received recalls against the Ascender, which is merely a re-badged Trailblazer.

it has been stated by a few people on the forum that the failures are due to oil loss. i believe this to be true.from my own experience i can tell you that sometimes i can go 1000 miles with no oil loss and other times i lose 1 quart of oil. still have not found out why. some have had a 2 quarts lost in 300 miles.what it comes down to is checking your oil often. and since it is the #1 bearing that goes this would make sense because the engine gets its oil from the front. and that would mean the first bearing with no oil would be the #1 bearing. the issue is actually oil consumption.possibly pcv valve. i am going to try putting in breathers instead to see if it solves the problem but have not had time. shawn

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Originally Posted by Joe_Black

^^^^ What he said ^^^^

The 6VE1 as used in the VehiCROSS has also been used in the Trooper, Rodeo and a number of other vehicles produced worldwide. The total production numbers of this engine are simply staggering, so the possibility for defects slipping through quality control even at small levels means that there will still be some "lemon" engines out there.

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The total production numbers of Nissan or Toyota engines is even more staggering, but the number of complaints with Isuzu are greater, and more focused on the 3.2 and 3.5 platforms. Have a look at Consumer Reports website for documentation.

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Originally Posted by Joe_Black

The horror-stories you've come across are shared here in the US by Trooper and Rodeo owners as well.

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Agreed

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Originally Posted by Joe_Black

So, if you're reluctant to buy a VX due to the potential for known engine failure then based on that logic you'd never buy a vehicle from any manufacturer.

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Wrong. If reliability and ease of maintenance are my goals, I'll buy a Honda, Nissan, or Toyota in a heartbeat. My logic is sound and based on factual data. Some people make the mistake of believing all Japanese cars are super-reliable, primarily because of Honda, Toyota, and Nissan. However, other Japanese cars, including Isuzu and Mitsubishi, just do not hold up as well. Again, I would refer you to Consumer Reports for documentation.

The thing is, most Honda's, Nissan's and Toyota's are boring. The VX is anything but IMO, and it's the only platform that offers a sports car/SUV combination in one package. That's why I want one.

I share your enthusiam for the VX, but it’s clouding your judgement.

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Originally Posted by skewzme

I share your enthusiam for the VX, but it’s clouding your judgement.

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We're all here for our own reasons -assuming that we believe the VX is the be-all-end-all of SUVs is not one of them.
It's a unique vehicle, and we're unique people, that's about it.
We don't pretend that the VX is the most reliable truck on the planet -it most definately is not.
I've had a dozen or so imports, Nissan and Subaru among them, and though they were more "reliable," the VX is more fun.

Look at the board members who are multiple VX owners -there's at least 5 of us. Find that kind of dedication/loyalty on another enthusiast's forum. These things ain't exactly cheap, and the fact that the most mechanically savvy of us still decide to purchase multiple examples should serve as a testament to our faith in the product.

Last night I fabbed up a set of (prototype, if anyone's interested) Teflon skid-plates. Today I'll drive up to the top of Esther Dome and impact test them in 2 feet of snow at -5 degrees.
Do that in a Camry -or 4Runner.

If it is not the engine per se but a minor part of it (PCV valve) that, probably, causes sudden and rapid oil comsumption leading to rod #1 failure then can it be replaced on periodic basis..say every 10K or 15K miles? I assume it shouldn't be that expensive. The question is...will this preventative measure guarantee trouble-free engine work? Is it risky to mess with PCV valve? I also read somewhere on the forum about more powerful oil pump for 3.5L engines...

There have been many theories about the excessive oil-consumption:
Oil pumping at the rings,
PCV,
Valve cover (this one happened on my Dragon),
Gremlins,
You name it.

If a $3 PCV valve is all that is required for "trouble-free" engine operation, than we'd all be in agreement.

Better to spend $0.75 on a rag and keep it under your seat. Check your oil at every fill-up and you'll be fine.

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Originally Posted by skewzme

I share your enthusiam for the VX, but it’s clouding your judgement.

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My judgement is based on solid, reliable and proven facts from real-world experience. I've owned Isuzus since 1986 and have collectively put over 2 million miles on them. In that time I've owned a number of Fords, Volkswagens, FIATs and even some Toyotas and Hondas as well as some more esoteric vehicles. Many of these have been professionally campaigned as race vehicles also, and some award-winning concours pieces.

Consumer Reports ratings can be bought and sold, and have even been proven in court to have been attempts by CU to shape consumer opinion into what they think it should be. These are from their own testimony in court documents. The settlements Consumers Union paid to Suzuki and Isuzu for the rollover claims were kept relatively silent, but were one many such incidents in their history.

So don't believe everything you read! Research and corroborate. ;)

I wonder if Isuzu dealers would know anything about more powerful oil pump or if suitable aftermart replacement exists. Khm, though aftermarket part may void the warranty.

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Originally Posted by Joe_Black

Consumer Reports ratings can be bought and sold,

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I wasn't referring to Customer Reports ratings. I was referring to actual, documented customer complaints posted on their web site, and there's a lot of them. If you are making the arguement that those complaints were bought, sold, or some kind of mass conspiracy against Isuzu, perhaps we should also discuss Bigfoot sightings.

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Originally Posted by Joe_Black

So don't believe everything you read! Research and corroborate. ;)

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I don't believe everthing I read, but it doesn't take a lot of research to figure this one out. The most compelling evidence for me was when I began lookng for a used one. I've seen two relatively low mileage VX's in the last month for sale with bad engines. One was right here on this forum, the other was on Ebay just last week.

I dont' mean to sound like I'm on the attact here. I LIKE THESE VEHICLES! My original purpose for the post was to see if anyone could say for sure if the newer engines have been fixed.

While there has been NO official acknowledgement of a 'defect' in the earlier 3.5L motors, there have been enough changes from 98/99 to 00/01 to warrant notice.

Stick with a 00 and newer and you'll be free of many of the issues that seem to plague the 99s. Not saying that it'll be "trouble-free," nothing really ever is. You'll just feel better at night.

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Originally Posted by skewzme

I dont' mean to sound like I'm on the attact here. I LIKE THESE VEHICLES! My original purpose for the post was to see if anyone could say for sure if the newer engines have been fixed.

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No worries, just wanted to make clear that Isuzu earned my appreciation. Like any other business they've made bone-headed mistakes too, but all-in-all the quality of their vehicles is top notch. As for Isuzu America, well, they suck. But they don't build the vehicles. ;)

I'm just as passionate about other machines as well, if they've earned it. Our '99 VX has well over 100K miles and is peppier with better mileage than our '01 VX, so go figure! Since there never was anything really "wrong" with the engines there isn't a "fix".

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Originally Posted by Joe_Black

Since there never was anything really "wrong" with the engines there isn't a "fix".

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I can relate Joe. I used to own a Delorean and didn't believe John D sold the cocaine either.

Why'd you buy the Delorean?

I don't think anyone here is denying the fact that there have been engine failures. But those are rare and don't have to do with the engine, but some 'other cause' that makes the engine oil to disappear. To be honest, this is the thing that worries me, but just need to be diligent!

I think as long as you can make sure the engine oil is there, you wouldn't have any issues. I haven't had any issues, actually i drove 1300 miles this week, and not a single drop of oil was lost. I use Mobil 1 synthetic, do the maintenance on time, change the PCV every 10K, and ocassionally use seafoam for 100 miles before the oil change to keep it clean. Haven't had any issues :)

a more powerful oil pump cannot pump anymore than a stock pump when there is nothing to pump.or how much oil can an oil pump pump if there is no oil to pump? shawn

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Why'd you buy the Delorean?

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Because it had an engine that was never paid for? :)

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Originally Posted by mbeach

Why'd you buy the Delorean?

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It was a long time ago. Lot's of similarilies to the VX in the sense that they were very unique cars. That seems to be one of the things I look for. Any car the big automakers mass produce loses appeal to me. I wanted a 350Z until I started seeing one at every traffic light. Pontiac just introduced the Solstice, a really good looking 2 seat spyder priced at under $25k. It's supposedly in limited production, but I decided to wait and see how many are around in 6 months.
Now, if I could just get my hands on one of the remaining Batmobiles . . . . . .
that would be cool!

If you're really concerned about it, pull the pan and put in fresh bearings at 50K miles.

95% of the work is getting the oil pan off.

John C.

I change the $3 PCV valve every other oil change and just buy a handful everytime I get oil filters. Since installing Fumoto valves on both VX's the oil change routine is tool-less and quick. ;)

As for DeLoreans: We got one once from a GSA auction and it was quite nice, especially for $5K with no issues other than no keys and a stolen radio. Except it knocked me nearly unconcious twice while detailing it with the doors open. Gullwings are hazardous when you're tall! :rolleyes:

Another thing to think about - Isuzu sales of engines and drivetrains far exceeds their car and truck sales. The 3.2/3.5 engine was supplied to Honda/Acura and several other manufacturers - it's funny that you don't hear about failure on those engines and the focus is always on Isuzu vehicles.

-- John

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Originally Posted by johnnyapollo

Another thing to think about - Isuzu sales of engines and drivetrains far exceeds their car and truck sales. The 3.2/3.5 engine was supplied to Honda/Acura and several other manufacturers - it's funny that you don't hear about failure on those engines and the focus is always on Isuzu vehicles.

-- John

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Really?
What cars did Honda use the 3.5 in?

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Originally Posted by skewzme

Really?
What cars did Honda use the 3.5 in?

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Honda Passport and SLX (Acura)

how about useing the toga main and rod bearings instead of stock replacement. My car is getting rebuild and it totally sucks only having one car in the household. so I want to do the most "preventative maintenance" I can do so this doesnt happen again and they do make a high volume oil pump.

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Originally Posted by johnnyapollo

Another thing to think about - Isuzu sales of engines and drivetrains far exceeds their car and truck sales. The 3.2/3.5 engine was supplied to Honda/Acura and several other manufacturers - it's funny that you don't hear about failure on those engines and the focus is always on Isuzu vehicles.

-- John

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Not just the engines...the whole damn truck!

The Honda Passport is a rebadged Rodeo.
The Acrua SLX is rebadged Trooper.

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Originally Posted by skewzme

I can relate Joe. I used to own a Delorean and didn't believe John D sold the cocaine either.

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Delorean never sold cocaine. He was arrested in a sting operation mounted by the FBI -- in conjunction with the DEA, Customs Service, and the police departments of Ventura and Los Angeles, California.

In 1984, DeLorean was acquitted of all charges after a federal judge ruled that the FBI operation had been a clear case of entrapment.

Delorean was seeking capitol investment for his car company during the resession of the early eighties. He never sold cocaine, he was looking for a backer and a paid informant for the FBI needed to give the FBI a case or he was going to loose his meal ticket.

And they did not smuggle cocaine in the hub caps of the Deloreans.
http://www.kd2095.4t.com/images/delorean_starion1.jpg

How could you fit cocaine in these?

It's ironic, like saying a "I'm sweating like a dog."

Dog's don't sweat, they pant. It's the only way they can cool themselves down.