DieselCross????

:smack: :smack: :flame2: Not only is Jersey famous for mob bosses and crime but now for stupidity. It seems my partner went to fill up my 99 Vehicross at a Kwick Mart station. He got a full tank and went to drive away and heard horrible engine noise and black smoke billowing out the exhaust. When I got the call, I thought I had the dreaded engine failure but at only 50,000 miles. Well, it turns how some idiot at the gas company put diesel fuel in the station's gas tanks and they pumped deisel fuel into a dozen cars before anyone noticed. Only a few made it off out of the gas station -- my VX was one. In any case, Kwik Mart has a huge insurance problem on their hands. My vehicross is now at a dealer and they're quoting $2k just to take a look and see what's wrong. Since I'm not paying I want them to be thorough.

So, does anyone have any advice on what I should have the dealer do to repair the damage as well as to prevent future problems with this engine? Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks.

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Originally Posted by BuffArchitect

:smack: :smack: :flame2: My vehicross is now at a dealer and they're quoting $2k just to take a look and see what's wrong. .

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Wow, just to take a look? Your dealer smells the insurance claim too. I dont know enough to be specific with details of what they should look for, but absolutely be proactive in knowing everything they are doing and that no corners are cut.

Check your PM box.

Is it at that Dodge/Isuzu dealer in Lawrenceville? I think it's Dick Greenfield.

Whenever I've been there they have not seemed very Isuzu savy. I've never actually decided to get work done there though (they scared me away twice).

Or is it out at Haldeman Nissan? Are they an Isuzu dealer too?

There's also a dealer in Richboro Pa, Davis Pontiac - Isuzu.

I wonder if Glen Wood could help, he has a foreign car repair shop in Morrisville five minutes from Trenton NJ and is a fellow VXer. His shop has been there for years, must have loads of experience, but I just discovered he is a member of this forum recently.

Glen:

http://www.vehicross.info/forums/member.php?u=1333

Yep, that's something I've had to get used to when we've gone through NJ to see my brother up in NYC. That's one of my biggest pet peeves about New Jersey. To elaborate for folks who don't already know, New Jersey law says you can't pump your own gas so you have to let an attendant do it. They had a bunch of folks who apparently can't get a job doing anything else, so they wrote a law mandating that you can't pump your own gas. This is so these rocket scientists can at least have something to do that they shouldn't be able to screw up and some politicians can brag about how they lowered unemployment. But if you make it idiot-proof, they just build a better idiot.

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Originally Posted by BuffArchitect

Well, it turns how some idiot at the gas company put diesel fuel in the station's gas tanks and they pumped deisel fuel into a dozen cars before anyone noticed.

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It wasn't the poor guy at the pump, it was some overpaid trucker that made the mistake.

I used to live in Jersey, and I was glad that those guys were out there (pumping gas) when it was freezing rain. I tipped them regularly. I'd rather have them getting paid $7.25 an hour than hassling me for change at every stoplight. They might not make much, and they might not be as smart as you and I, but at least they are working -doing one of the crappier jobs out there at that.

[RANT] When I drive from Washington to California, I try hard to make it without stopping for gas in Oregon because they've got the same silly law. I didn't realize that it was just to reduce unemployment. I suppose that's great that they are creating jobs for the under qualified and all, but I resent being forced to pay for something that I would happily do myself. It's like those grocery store baggers than insist on carrying your groceries to your car for you. I really don't mind pushing that cart myself, and I'll even bag my own groceries. [/RANT]

Sorry to hear about your VX. I would definitely find a GOOD mechanic that you feel very comfortable with. Most Isuzu dealers SUCK and just about any good mechanic can do an engine swap and handle an insurance claim. If you were in Maryland I could offer a couple of suggestions, but I don't know anyone in 'Joisey.

New Jersey's gas pumping law was passed in 1949 for safety concerns. Oregon is the only other state to have a similar law. Why the laws remain today, when pumping your own gas is fairly safe and common, probably has more to do with people losing jobs and the difficulties in changing something that has been effect for so long.

I live in a small community in Pennsylvannia, 2 minutes from New Jersey, and we must have a local law or something, because none of the stations in town let you pump your own gas. Everywhere else I've been in PA I can pump my own gas.

I find it a pain to wait for an attendant, and avoid getting gas in my town, but my wife likes the convenience.

Either way it seems like it was the delivery driver that messed up Buff's VX.

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Originally Posted by jimbo

Is it at that Dodge/Isuzu dealer in Lawrenceville? I think it's Dick Greenfield.

Whenever I've been there they have not seemed very Isuzu savy. I've never actually decided to get work done there though (they scared me away twice).

Glen:

http://www.vehicross.info/forums/member.php?u=1333

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I had them tow my VX to Dick Greenfield in Lawrenceville. I agree that they do not seem to know a lot about Isuzus. They were close and have done service for me before so I went back. I'll see what they say today. Yesterday they weren't very encouraging but maybe they realize there is an insurance claim here. I'd rather they be thorough and check everything out and replace anything that they think needs to be replaced.

I can't really blame the gas attendents other than not realizing with that when half a dozen cars are stalling and belching black smoke in their parking lot, they didn't realize something was wrong. For a good 1/2 hour they maintained that there wasn't anything wrong with their gas and it was everyone's cars that were the problem. What are you gonna do though?

Thanks for advice.

Bad news, Buff. Sorry for your problem.

The exhaust system is probably something worth checking closely, meaning the catalytic converter. Running mis-burned deisel through there may have really messed it up, but only an emissions test would show it, probably. It shouldn't be terminal for the engine, though, unless any sensors got fouled. I've seen something like this before... I worked a summer job at a car dealership once, and a service tech had put gas into a new deisel Mercedes when he was prepping it for delivery. Ouch! But they drained the tank and did some other work to it, and delivered it three days later. Of course, I have no idea how it ran after that. :-(

I'll pipe up on the Jersey gas pumping laws too... I get annoyed having to wait in long lines at the Jersey Turnpike rest areas where the favorite sons are working the pumps - one 10-minute wait blowing your average speed out of the water will show you that self-serve pumps would be a LOT more efficient. On the other hand, when it's raining or snowing out, I'd rather have the pump jockeys get cold and wet than me. One big plus - their prices are still a LOT cheaper than Connecticut's self-serve pumps, and a LOT cheaper than CT's full-serve pumps, which charge a 20-30 cent premium for full service.

This is a pretty common problem here in Florida, but it's mostly the Northern blue-hairs not paying attention at the pump. :laugho: VehiGAZ is on the right track with checking the exhaust, but there's more. I have a few local friends that are mechanics and they get this repair several times a year. Basically, they replace all fuel filters, check valves and spark plugs, inspect the vent lines, replace the catalytic converter and inspect the exhaust system. They also flush the tank and fuel lines as well. With a fresh tank of gas the engine usually clears right up.

Now, since this is clearly not your fault and there's ample evidence of where the error occurred... I'd go for whole new engine replacement using the 3.5 DI. Just to be sure. :winkg:

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Originally Posted by Joe_Black

This is a pretty common problem here in Florida, but it's mostly the Northern blue-hairs not paying attention at the pump.

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Joe - Are ya sure it's never caused by drinking the "refreshments" you Floridians can buy at the Circle K while pumping your gas? :laughg:

I was afraid Buff was going to need a new engine. From what Joe described it sounds like a common problem that is very fixable, hopefully this VXer will be up and running again in no time. :clap:

Fortunately, it's not nearly as bad as putting gasoline in a diesel vehicle! Gas ignites at a lower temperature and does not provide the lubrication that a diesel engine needs, it can cause melt-down in a diesel engine. The diesel in a gas engine problem is more of fouling and making sure it is out of ALL systems so that the engine will run properly. Certainly, still no fun! When I was a kid, our boat ran out of gas, and a passing barge gave us gas which had apparently been put into a can that still had some diesel in it. The boat never did run right after that incident!

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Originally Posted by Raque Thomas

Fortunately, it's not nearly as bad as putting gasoline in a diesel vehicle!

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I had a gunner do that in a HMMWV once. It ran like a champ for exactly 4 minutes. :p

I don't think that you'll be in bad shape either, I wouldn't sign anything after the repairs are done however -just in case a problem crops up a month from now.
But just to be safe,
I second the new engine approach -maybe you need to find a 'friendlier' dealership.

Have them buy an extended warranty for your engine in addition to any work needed.

I realize this case was wrong fuel in the tank in the ground, but about it being a common enough problem, I always thought that the pumps and the recepticle on the car were mated such that you could only put a deisel nozzle in a deisel tank and the same for unleaded - pretty much preventing anyone from accidently mixing them up... Is that not true?

Man I feel for you...hope everthing works out OK.
The driver who delivered the Diesel to the wrong tank must have been sleeping that morning. I was under the impression that each ground tank was color coded and had it's own sized filler nozzle. But then again ...what do I know :p .
As long as their insurance company is paying the bill for the entire screwup make sure they do it right.If an Isuzu dealership is doing it for you check back often and demand the best...don't accept excuses or substitutes.
John :)

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Originally Posted by WyrreJ

I realize this case was wrong fuel in the tank in the ground, but about it being a common enough problem, I always thought that the pumps and the recepticle on the car were mated such that you could only put a deisel nozzle in a deisel tank and the same for unleaded - pretty much preventing anyone from accidently mixing them up... Is that not true?

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The diesel nozzle at the truck pumps is much larger to allow for a higher flow rate, but at the automotive pumps it's the same size and usually has a green cover. Back when regular leaded gas was still available the cars that required unleaded had a smaller fill opening so you couldn't accidentally put in leaded.

:clap: :clap: :clap: Well... I finally got my Vehicross back from Dick Greenfield Isuzu in Trenton, New Jersey. It took them almost three weeks to fix the damage from the diesel fuel. They allegedly had trouble getting parts. The total bill for parts and labor topped out at about $8,463! That's more than the truck is worth. Can you believe it? My VX runs fine with no real noticeable difference. DO NOT GO TO THIS DEALER FOR SERVICE! I called them every day for an update and for the entire time they said it would be the next day. Then they would find something else to replace and have trouble with the obtaining the part. I'm just glad that I didn't have to pay for this.

Of the 12 cars that got diesel instead of gas, my VX was the last to be fixed and the most expensive. The insurance company called to tell me that the average cost to fix the deisel damage on the other cars was about $350 and took 2 days. They feel that my dealer screwed them over royally. I can't disagree. I need to find a better local dealer for when I'm on the other end of the bill.

Thanks to all for advice.

Wow. Considering they could've put in a new crate engine from Isuzu for less than that I'd certainly agree on your assessment of the screwage the insurance company got. Good on you though for at least getting it fixed out of a pocket other than your own. Did you get any kind of warranty for the work that was done?