CNNMONEY
FYI-
an additional .24 cents to .28 cents a gallon might not seem much but will add quite a bit in your monthly gas expenses.
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CNNMONEY
FYI-
an additional .24 cents to .28 cents a gallon might not seem much but will add quite a bit in your monthly gas expenses.
How come we never hear of prices going down? The only thing that does go down is the spending power of our meger paychecks and the cost of living increases don't keep up with what we have to dish out. If I was a rich man I could care less but the working stiff always gets the dirty side of the stick.
John
Our gas prices have gone up just between this morning and this afternoon. Once the news says anything, the price jumps. :confused:
There is only so much oil left in the world. Do you really think the only reason were having this "war" is due to terrorism?
Did you happen to see what company made the most $$$ and profits last year? EXXON/MOBIL OIL based out in Irving, Texas.
The only people not concerned with the oil prices are the oil people. And who do you think those people are?
Just think about it?
Um... the Alaska National Wildlife Refuge is estimated to have enough oil to sustain this country for 30 years. The drilling would not destroy the place - it would only affect a very small area that is pretty much wasteland anyway. Take a 10x13 space and toss a penny on it. That's the space relative to the reserve we're talking about here. Most Alaskans want this to happen. Caribou have been shown to huddle near pipelines for the warmth. It would probably increase their numbers. All this is without even getting into drilling down here off the Florida coast, other Alaska spots, or off California. Most of the oil in the oceans seeps from natural fissures, not from drilling pollution. It's not a dream, it is a reality - this country could be totally independent of Middle Eastern oil if it simply had the intestinal fortitude for it. There is no reason we can't be and it's ridiculous that we're not. Even if we only tapped the ANWR resource, that's 30 years to develop a good and viable alternative to the combustion engine for the masses. Which I am not against at all, but we're a long way from ready. Oil is the lifeblood of our economy, yes. And if this war were about oil and keeping it for ourselves, we'd be controlling the Iraqi and Kuwaiti fields and the prices would be down.
"It's estimated", indeed. It was also estimated there were large amounts of oil in the interior of Russia, but that turned up close to dry. Yep....drill in Alaska, but if what is "estimated" to be there, is there... it's only 30 years. Also, based on world politics, it's a little more difficult to just take control over in the Middle East. It will happen that the US will install our form of Democracy over there, and put in place the types of people that are US friendly. It just takes time and for the American public... we need a reason more than just oil.
What really gets my goat is that the same rhetoric (30 year supply, end to opec dependency, ect.) was used to justify using taxpayer dollars to finance the Alaskan Pipedream.....I mean pipeline.
So what happened ?
The oil companies got rich by selling that oil to other countries that will pay higher prices for the oil and the taxpayers got the un-oiled shaft....again.
Could it be Deja vu all over again?
I've heard gas stations are already raising prices up to 20cents/ gal. on their existing stock. Based on futures prices and opec imaginings of 80$/ barrel prices in the future. This is gas they did not pay that premium for and they may never pay the same price as the futures price.
No gouging going on here. No one investigating either.
Those who forget history are bound to repeat it.
Kinda like tax breaks for the rich and the old "trickle down theory"
If we do need to drill here, I think the oil companies that do it should be forced to keep the oil in this country and while we're at it, let's force them to keep all future oil from the pipeline in this country too.
I'll bet the oil companies will find other sources rather than having to be responsible, accountable and reciprocal to the U.S. taxpayers and consumers.
Ride a motorcycle.... for me my R1 makes gas prices not so lame... and if you really are bent don't ever go to Europe
The best thing Bush ever did for this country was to raise oil prices.
It has had the effect of making alternative energy sources cost-competitive. Lots of money is now flowing into research and refinement of alternative energy that would not have been spent their previously. Which means we are just that much closer to an oil-free economy.
If ANWAR really is the promised land of oil, we need to stay away from it in order to maintain private funding levels of alternative energy research.
If ANWAR is not the promised land, we need to stay away from it to avoid wasting even more money on pointless destruction of the environment.
Short term, we need atomic power produced by modern nuke planets - the kind that produce waste with a really short half-life and are designed to be physically incapable of going critical.
So he's the responsible party?Quote:
Originally Posted by WyrreJ
Three cheers for Dumbya!!! :confused:
I'm with WyrreJ. I'd love to see oil and fuel prices nail over $5 a gallon and stay there. We've NEVER needed fossil fuel for autos or anything else since Henry Ford originally designed his first cars to run on what he called the "fuel of the future"... Ethanol. But guess what folks: Even in the early 1900's the big oil companies told Henry to stuff it, they'd never produce or distribute it so his car would never sell unless he made it run on gasoline.
Think about that next time your at the pump.
Joe, I KNEW you'd drop by and mention ethanol. :-) Ya know, I recently noticed that our van is designed to run on ethanol or gasoline. Not pure ethanol of course, but I think it's called E89 or something. Not sure where you can get it, though. Maybe out in CA or something. However, ethanol is often made from petroleum stocks, using catalytic hydration of ethylene with sulphuric acid as catalyst. It's much cheaper than production by fermentation so it would probably be the method of choice. Done this way, we'd still need lots of petroleum.
I'm all for not relying on foreign oil. I'm even for not using our own oil resources if the alternative is made practical AND just as good or better. But it will not happen overnight, folks. And most of the folks who are against drilling for more oil (which will NOT destroy the environment) aren't likely to be for a smarter alternative either, if you catch my drift. Especially if some prominent conservative eventually comes along and gets such a widespread reform accomplished.
I want to agree that oil harvested here should stay here in this country, but then again, you have to restrict free enterprise then. Americans don't know how good they have it and they don't want to pay for it, so maybe suppliers ought to be able to get more for it elsewhere if they can find willing buyers.
As far as this tax breaks for the rich stuff goes, now that really IS the same old tired rhetoric. I'm sorry, but it shows a lack of understanding of basic economics and when someone says it, the last thing I'm going to do is put much faith in their rants against "big oil".
I seem to remember an article I read a couple of twenty years ago (Damn...I am showing my age again)
There was a gentleman back in 1908 (I beleive) who had invented and patented a carburator for the new fangled gasoline motor which could give the user about 80 miles per gallon. It did not matter how big or small the engine was it still gave 80 mpg.
Well...somehow the oil companies got hold of this guy and the carb(or the patent) has never been heard from again.
Who was in control of the world then...and who is right now?
John
Quote:
Originally Posted by Heraclid
The oil companies should have to keep it here if any funding for their projects come from taxpayer dollars.
I understand basic economics well enough to remember how the last "trickle down" and "rising tide lifts all boats" helped the middle and lower classes. And how when you're super rich, being broke means you only have multi-million $ estates in 3 different countries...all equipped with $5000 shower curtains....
...so you can't possibly afford to pay any government fines or penalties.
Funny.....BUT SO TRUE!!!Quote:
Originally Posted by SGT.BATGUANO
John
I like you guys too much to want to go too far down this road, so maybe we should drop this, but I will say this and I'll leave it at that...
First of all, I'm don't consider myself poor but I'm not rich or even what I'd call middle class. But I'm still a conservative and I still think the rich are rich because they keep doing the things that make them rich, and the poor stay poor because they keep doing the things that make them poor. You cannot keep making the same decisions and expect anything to change. And the wealthy have as much right to their money as you or I do. It is theirs and nobody has a right to try to tell them how to spend it or how much they can have. You've got no right to it. I guess you want to take their money and spread it around so everyone is equal. Well you just watch what happens to unemployment and your standard of living when you get your way. We'll all be equally miserable - I pray you never get to see how you like it then. I've about had it with jealous people wanting to cut other people off at the knees - not because it will do a damn thing to improve their lot in life, but just because they have more than they do and they can't stand it. It's sick.
Reagan cut taxes, the economy spiked, and revenue to the government doubled while cutting taxes sharply. Letting people keep more of their own money works. And if you're so worried about your taxpayer dollars, you need to start demanding some accountability from your government regarding how they waste those dollars. Government was never meant to provide anyone with social security because they won't save for their own retirements and all these other things government does now that it has no business getting into. But lots of folks don't want to do anything about it because once they get on the government take and get used to the handouts, they don't want the personal responsibility that comes with turning that around.
I fear for the future of this great nation. People have become so misguided that they don't even know the basics about how this country came to be and what made it great. It is a historical fact that whenever the populace of a nation discovers it can vote itself money out of the public treasury, that nation crumbles and becomes a pale shadow of its former self. Our founders understood this and that is why we were founded as a representative republic. That is why the word democracy does not exist in our founding documents. Our founders wisely sought to avoid it altogether. Democracy is inherently flawed - it is mob rule rather than rule of law. Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what's for lunch. Get a clue before we're all screwed.
Rant over.
Not a bad rant and we're certainly well into "troubled times".
Here's mine: Our nation's attitude about fuel and consumption, and the resultant cry against rising prices yet little action among the criers, are just symptons of the greater ills. We are no longer a nation of united states. That's just a holdover kept to make the illusion feel better. This "country" is a vast pool of consumers gobbling the spew from special interests and a corporate controlled government. The only change on the horizon is when the entire planet is basically a conglomerate of controlling mega-corporations looking to extract every possible resource and capital from it's captive workforce. My bet is we're there within the next century. Why? Very, very few people are willing to rock the boat. Remember television before remote controls? You'd have to really dislike something enough to get up to change the channel. As a nation we've barely begun to even grumble about what's on the American channel, just the whiny brats at the back of the room have even made themselves noticed.
If you're over 35 you can probably relate to the changes in your lifetime, the slide to mediocrity and the lack of desire to succeed. An overfed slacker-society is ripe for control and we've taken the express lane to get there, all at the illusion of superiority over the rest of the world. Look at how children are raised and schooled today compared to the way we were. The ideals of differentation and competition are gone in order to maintain control and "political correctness". Drone production. So we continue to outsource while domestic labor unions price our nation out of jobs and the rest of the world becomes our supplier. The eventuality is that we will produce nothing and then be at the mercy of our benefactors, who we will be dependant on for food and energy. It's hard to threaten when your military doesn't have food or fuel.
But it's just business. Remember that when nations begin mergers and acquisitions. What kind of lay-offs and downsizing will be the result of that?
End rant. ;)
I still think we're a country. I don't think corporations control the government, but I do think the government seeks to control corporations.
I'm 28 for a few more weeks, but we had a little box with a slider on it that went to 18 channels, I think. I remember that Channel 15 was Disney. I used to watch the old Zorro episodes a lot.
It's all about power. Government exists to serve the people, but government increasingly believes we exist to serve it. I still do believe we are the greatest nation on earth, but we're not on a course to keep it that way. And a lot of people in this country seem to like it that way.
You know there's something wrong with education when they start talking about not handing out awards for A-B honor roll or whatever because the other kids who didn't earn them might feel bad. Screw that. Earn it then. Like you said, they're taking away any incentive to excel. Then little Johnny is all proud of his or her school supplies on the first day of school and the teacher confiscates them from everyone in the class and tosses them in a big bin and says they belong to everyone and they're not his anymore.
Education funding needs to be cut, not just frozen. Spending more and more isn't making it any better. They need just enough to get the job done, and there need to be standards that are stuck to so we get some results. There are way too many government programs, perhaps many the brainchilds of good intentions - but good intentions are useless without results and we need to demand results. Like the old saying goes, sometimes the road to hell is paved with good intentions.
Joe, your post had visions of the Imperial Senate and legions of Storm Troopers dancing in my head. :-) I don't see things ever getting quite so extreme, or at least I certainly hope not. But it's true that we are producing less and less here, and other places will suck on the teat of the USA until they're fat and happy and when they don't need us anymore and we're not producing enough on our own, we will be ripe for the picking. And many will put on that yoke quite willingly.
I think you both, Heraclid and Joe, have made some extremely valid points about this direction of this nation. My question is, outside of trying to affect our own little corner of the world, what can be done to stop the snowball effect? It seems to me that way too many of the people who make the decisions in this country are fat cats who are way too content to give up their short sighted greedy goals because they've lost the ability to understand the long term consequences of their actions. My fear is that those who have the forsight to see the direction we are headed are in a small minority and don't have the financial or political power to reverse the trends. Am I just a pessimist?
I once heard someone say that we get exactly the government we deserve, and I'm inclined to agree. Perhaps I am just naive, but I would say that I am guardedly optimistic. I think the situation isn't looking good but I think the number of people who recognize the problem is growing every day. I know that eventually enough people will see what's up and do something about it, but how deep of a hole we're in by that time is anybody's guess.
My Trooper has been gathering dust for months now... I do most of my city driving in the Prius. I've been averaging 43 MPG in cold weather and over 50 MPG in warm weather (above 50 degrees or so).
My Trooper seems archaic in comparison...
Nate