Wanted to start a poll. Given the opportunity (money, skills, other car,etc.) how many would be willing to give up the 4x4 and offroad ability and turn the VX into a rear drive, pavement peeling, tire eating, gas gulping street machine? Sarge, we already know your answer
Why convert to 2WD when you can do this and keep TOD. ;Dr;
It can already do that already - throw some NOS on it and watch those tires light up - I need to find that video of me in the parking lot, VX disappearing in tire smoke. Great drag strip times, high speed drivers ed on old runways hitting the rev limiter hard at 115. And we won't talk about all the street takedowns....
Not that my vote really counts since the Axiom is geared more toward street use than the VX but i am workin on a mean mustang eatin machine. I will be happy when i break 13s, not smokin but pretty quick for this type of vehical. I agree with keepin the awd look at how much faster WRXs can be than compariable rear wheel drive cars. 4 beats 2 any day of the week.:evil:
Would love too!!
Interesting poll, but I think TOD/AWD is pretty much becoming theh norm now. With cars like the WRX (yes, and the VX) and so forth, the way we look at street machines appears to be changing. Heck, kinda makes ya wonder why Camaro and Firebird is taking a backseat on the lines for a while. Will be interesting to see just what a street machine is 10 years from now.
Ditto on Joe's and Tone's comments .....
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Maybe I don't get out enough, but I have not seen too many SUV's that are in the same league as the VX as far as 'on-road' handling is concerned ......
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the vehicle you mentioned (rear drive, pavement peeling, tire eating, etc) - might be one of those turbocharged GM vehicles .... Typhoon ... or whatever they are called ...
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One mag (a few years ago) commented that the VX handled better than any other SUV - except for maybe a 80K AMG Mercedes ...... and that may have been a 99 VX with 245-16's .......
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The incredible on-road handling of the VX is very unique - maybe it's most unique attribute - and the reason I sometimes cringe when I read comments that mention replacing the IFS with a straight axle ..... etc etc ...... to improve off-road ability. Maybe just me, but I would probably purchase a Jeep, IH Scout or similar - instead of performing that type of major surgery on a VX.
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Maybe Tone could (should ?) have mentioned the time that he accompanied a Porsche club on an autocross event .........
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Me ? - I would have liked just a tad more room behind the rear seats .... maybe moving the rear seat location up would satifsfy me ..... ???
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I think TOD/AWD is the way to go. Or stay. t2p mentioned the Typhoon. The Typhoon was GMC's SUV version. The Syclone the mini truck version. Syclone was produced in 1991 and the Typhoon in '91 and '92.
Both had the same chassis platform and drivetrain. The Syclone being a bit faster because it was considerably lighter. They put out around 280 horses, had a good suspension and Et's around 14 +- stock. (If I remember correctly) 0-6 about 5.5, again if I remember correctly. Top speed was rev limited to 125 mph. But what was the big difference in them as compared to other hi-po trucks and most cars of the day was they were AWD. They could really get off the line in a hurry. They weren't very heavy by comparrison to other SUV's/Trucks of the time or even today.
I guess if I could have only one wish for my VX it would be for it to be considerably lighter. But then I would not be getting the all around vehicle it was meant to be.
Tone,
I'd love to see that video. And there used to be one of you on a track (and something about Porsches) - is that still around? As for NOS, just how safe is that?
morgan-tec,
The Axiom looks mean from the front. I think a lowered kick-arse street monster version of that would be pretty sweet.
t2p,
Your comment about the magazine article was right on. I believe the quote you're referring to is this:
In the twisties, that means the VehiCross is probably the best-handling SUV made, save for the nearly $70,000 Mercedes ML 55 AMG.
It comes from Four Wheeler's 2002 Four Wheeler of the Year issue, here: http://www.fourwheeler.com/roadtests/5034/index.html
It's a good read, very positive about the VX, and basically the VX won everything performance-wise but they didn't like the interior, griped about the rearward visibility, and said there was no grab handle on the rear door even though there's a pic of a tester using it in the article. And none of that really affects the off-road capability, so if they were really looking to crown a four wheeler of the year, the VX was the rightful winner.
I totally agree about maintaining the on-road handling characteristics of the VX. We can safely take a tight curve like very few SUV's can, if any. I have been in a few situations where I swerved hard and I swear it behaved better than my old Dodge Avenger ES, and the strongest point about that car was its handling (out-slaloms Eclipse GS-T's)! I like having a very capable off-road vehicle even in stock form, and that's enough for me. I've decided I won't do much real serious off-roading and it spends the great majority of its time on the street. Plus since I got into rallycross, handling is paramount and lifting it would be a negative. I could try to lower it a bit, but any gain in a rallycross respect would be negligible and the stock clearance is nice to have when I need it (and I love being able to just slide under there to work on it!).
Tone,
I'd love to see that video. And there used to be one of you on a track (and something about Porsches) - is that still around? As for NOS, just how safe is that?
morgan-tec,
The Axiom looks mean from the front. I think a lowered kick-arse street monster version of that would be pretty sweet. By the way, I saw a tag frame today on a Mustang GT that said Mustang GT - I'm eating rice tonight. We actually had a Subaru at one of the rallycrosses with a SUV ETR tag, which I found humorous because for the most part that isn't really saying much.
t2p,
Your comment about the magazine article was right on. I believe the quote you're referring to is this:
In the twisties, that means the VehiCross is probably the best-handling SUV made, save for the nearly $70,000 Mercedes ML 55 AMG.
It comes from Four Wheeler's 2002 Four Wheeler of the Year issue, here: http://www.fourwheeler.com/roadtests/5034/index.html
It's a good read, very positive about the VX, and basically the VX won everything performance-wise but they didn't like the interior, griped about the rearward visibility, and said there was no grab handle on the rear door even though there's a pic of a tester using it in the article. And none of that really affects the off-road capability, so if they were really looking to crown a four wheeler of the year, the VX was the rightful winner.
I totally agree about maintaining the on-road handling characteristics of the VX. We can safely take a tight curve like very few SUV's can, if any. I have been in a few situations where I swerved hard and I swear it was more composed than my old '95 Dodge Avenger ES, and this was with Mud Terrains on the VX which aren't as grippy on the street. To put this in perspective, the strongest point about the Avenger was its handling, and in a magazine review it was said that the 1995 Avenger out-slalomed a 1995 Eclipse GS-T! And my brother had a '95 Eclipse GS-T which I've driven, so I know that is an accomplishment and a testament to superior handling beating a much lighter, much faster car.
I like having a very capable off-road vehicle even in stock form, and that's enough for me. I've decided I won't do much real serious off-roading and it spends the great majority of its time on the street. Plus since I got into rallycross, handling is paramount and lifting it would be a negative. I could try to lower it a bit, but any gain in a rallycross respect would be negligible and the stock clearance is nice to have when I need it (and I love being able to just slide under there to work on it!).
can we just give up the offroad ability and keep teh fancy four wheel drive?
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Laguna Bay II Condo Pattaya
I just question how much hp. this tranny could take. It doesn't seem "overbuilt. Thinking more about weight here as well. That TOD and all the front drive bits ddefinitely have a signifigant weight penalty . Not complaining about the handling, I love this vehicles handling... for its type. Just want a bit more. Squat it down some, for starters. A Nissan or maybe Subie Turbo 6, dialed in around 375 or 400 may be nice.
Still just dreamin' kids.
Wayne
Go to my gallery and see the Suzuki we did. No I don't have anything quite that silly in mind. Sick Toy was just for fun. It's a handful to drive hard, and that is not what I want at all.
Don't mess up a perfectly good VX to do this.
Go buy a car thats already RWD and do your dumb ricer crap to it instead.
I bought it, I paid for it, and I'll do as I please with it thank you. I'll just put you in the" never- definitely not" category.
Ditto on what Maugin_VX said.
Ruxpin, remember you asked us our opinions.Quote:
Post# 14
Don't mess up a perfectly good VX to do this.
Go buy a car thats already RWD and do your dumb ricer crap to it instead.
We all know that with today's techs that it is possible to turn a silk purse into a sow's ear,.... but why do it?
The 4L30E tranny has a pretty good track record and is used in everything from Chevy trucks to BMW E-series sedans. The Borg-Warner TOD unit successfully finished several Asian rallies while coupled to the 5-speed from the Trooper and also visited the Paris-Dakar rally. I don't think there's a lot of question regarding its ability. As for the weight issue, well, you're tackling it from the wrong end. Dropping the front axle components and the TOD will shave about as much weight as a healthy American passenger. Remember, this is a truck. It has a frame. And that's where your weight issue comes in. Not too many sports cars have full frames anymore, and the ones that used to really weren't sports cars in the true sense of the word. Unibody and subframe construction pretty much won the weight and handling battle in car construction. There is always room for improvement, you just need to come up with a specific goal to design towards. Otherwise you're just perpetuating compromise.
Just so you guys understand.... this is not happening to 0177, or the other black one. Ron is on the way back from the upper peninsula Mi. some time next week and said he had a surprise. I already know it is a VX of unknown color or condition. I'm trying to come up with some alternative to his typical 350/350 tub it approach to vehicle modification. He loves the look of the vehicle, that is all he is interested in this time. He has the other one to keep stock. I just think we can do something much more interesting, that's all. Looking for input from others that love this car. Like the Studie, whatever we do will be SEMA bound. You'll see it.
To Maugan and BamBam: No harm no foul..... just looking for constructive input; This car will be chopped up!! I just have more than a little input in how it turns out... what it becomes, ya know?
Thanks all.
Wayne
Thank You Joe... as usual,the depth of your tech knowledge is amazing. You know us body guys, metal, plastic and paint is our art... the rest is just swapping parts :D :D
Wayne, I've got it: 22's and a turbine with dual side exhaust. Whooosh!!! ;Dr;
kinda funny how most of us drive on road and really have no need for 4wd. yet making it handle better on road is considered ricer.Quote:
Originally posted by Maugan_VX
Don't mess up a perfectly good VX to do this.
Go buy a car thats already RWD and do your dumb ricer crap to it instead.
yet lifting it and putting on 33" tires...etc is considered ok for the car....hmmmm
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WELLBUTRIN SETTLEMENT INFO
Anytime you turn a vehicle into something it was not meant to be, you can equate it to rice in my book.
Taking a multi-dimensional machine and gutting it to turn it into some road queen...makes me throw up a little in my mouth.
Thats just one jackasses' opinion though. Good luck.
the car was made for both on road and off road.....but i do see ur point....
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RedFire cam
hey .......
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I kind of like the idea .... 350/350 ....... in just about anything .....
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those were the days when you could put a nice small block chevy together ...... with money from a part time job while you were in school .........
I once saw a 1978 Corvette painted candy apple red, really nice inside and out, lifted about 3 feet. Must have been mounted onto a chevy truck frame with a huge lift kit and tires. I thought it was very creative and different.
I like the idea, too, ruxpin. Something away from the norm. Weight will always be an issue, though. But, I say go for it.
Would you be able to make it street legal considering it's year? If that even matters.
Florida Baby!!! No inspection- No emissions- very "liberal" saftey regs. Yaaaa!!!
I want a more on-road bias, as I rarely encounter anything more difficult to hop than the Chicago alleys, potholes, and pavement buckles.
I believe the vx concept had a composite frame and was much lighter and quicker, unfortunately the frame didn't make it to production due to cost constraints.
According to the 4wheeler article, "Amazingly, this performance did not pay a price at the pump. The 'Cross turned in the best mileage of the bunch with a combined mpg of 17.3"
WTF??? Anybody else get this kind of all 'round mileage? I get 13-14, if I'm lucky... and I'm rarely lucky! (Could have something to do w/ my oversized right foot, though...)
Tone: What kind of NOS setup were you using and what was you're impression of the ability of the drivetrain to handle the extra juice?
I get anywhere from 17 to 19 mpg. on a routine basis. Mostly at 70or 80 mph. The synths helped some plus it's nice and flat here.
I intend to make performance modifications the very day i get my VX, starting with a Cold air intake, and an exhaust, im not into offroading, but i do love the VX becuase of its futuristc looks and i love the car overall. infact when i am done with it will be a street machine, but i dont see why 4 wheel drive takes the street out of street machine, look at the evos, the gen 2 turbo 4wd eclipse/talon, and the wrxs out there, rally inspired so is the VX some what, and i intend to take full atvantage of that, im still looking for headers that will fit, if not i'll make my own and send them to jethot to coat them. I like fast cars, i like the sound of a roaring engine, im sitting here thinking - who the hell doesn't? (no beef with you if u dont - if thats ur thing)
hey- it would be easy to have the vx go on a diet for performance sake. All that is needed is an aluminum frame. You can actually buy AL frames for some vehicles, but due to our limited manufacturing, or Isuzus in general have NO aftermarket. Were stuck. You would have to custom fabricate. I could see it now- group ordering aluminum frames! LOL Would probably save at least 300 lbs. Lose your front axle and drivetrain and you would weigh in at 3500 lbs! Thats only 250 lbs more than an STI! Of course I would only do the frame myself. This baby is never losing AWD. Thats the one thing imports have always owned- handling.
I would really really like to find out how to drop in a 5 speed and keep TOD.